(January 12, 2015 at 2:02 pm)Chad32 Wrote: When the preacher says "til death do you part", it doesn't mean until your husband decides to kill you. Some people may be a little unclear on that.

Haha but I didn't die so I like..broke a marriage vow..and that's like...a promise to god..that's important to some people.

We could go into the problems with making a promise that you're still going to be in love with each other fifty years down the road, but that's a little off topic. Jesus wasn't shy about saying that this was going to tear families apart, yet christian groups often claim to be family oriented.

(January 10, 2015 at 3:11 pm)robvalue Wrote: Each person who puts forward the idea that "faith" is a good idea is propping up the religious institutions around the world. Religion is holding back proper teaching of science, interfering with public policies, causing divisiveness, wars, terrorism, children traumatised by indoctrination, spread of aids...

However small your part is in religion, you validate the whole deal by your vote of confidence in faith. Religion causes a lot of harm, and to deny that is to deny reality.

Faith is a very very good idea, and is quite necessary for us to function... we arrogantly believe the world is mostly stable, follows sets of rules, and sometimes: that we're not crazy...

But we have to do that, or else we'll all die in doubt.

Personal faith in gods/the universe/the dream, on the other hand... is not as good of an idea. Maybe it helps a person here or there; maybe it hurts a person there or thither. But... it ends up being very much neutral.

...

Religion, which is the establishment of a doctrine which is to be fed to a mass of people such to grow the power of the 'clergy' in some self-righteous sanctimony... is a very very very bad idea.

I don't have faith in gravity. I don't have faith in the laws of physics. I don't have faith that my truck will start up when I turn the key.

Those things have solid evidence, and that means that those are reasonable beliefs.

(January 12, 2015 at 4:04 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: I don't have faith in gravity. I don't have faith in the laws of physics. I don't have faith that my truck will start up when I turn the key.

Those things have solid evidence, and that means that those are reasonable beliefs.

But they're just theories!

(January 12, 2015 at 4:04 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: I don't have faith in gravity. I don't have faith in the laws of physics. I don't have faith that my truck will start up when I turn the key.

Those things have solid evidence, and that means that those are reasonable beliefs.

Whether faith be justified or not changes not the nature of belief.

Maybe your reasons are right... maybe your reasons are wrong... maybe your reasons are French: it changes nothing.

...

I've had an awful lot of cars not start when I turn the key... if that was your intention with that, then bully for you, clever wordsmith.

Most people believe the ground they walk upon is quite solid... I will not begrudge them their right to think that... but often enough it is sinking sand, and they are set to drown in it.

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(January 12, 2015 at 4:07 pm)Chad32 Wrote: But they're just theories!

Theories... reasons... facts... cheeseburgers...

Presumptuous... gullible... false... it is a lie

Bu the cake is truth, right?

(January 12, 2015 at 2:54 pm)Alice Wrote:

(January 10, 2015 at 3:11 pm)robvalue Wrote: Each person who puts forward the idea that "faith" is a good idea is propping up the religious institutions around the world. Religion is holding back proper teaching of science, interfering with public policies, causing divisiveness, wars, terrorism, children traumatised by indoctrination, spread of aids...

However small your part is in religion, you validate the whole deal by your vote of confidence in faith. Religion causes a lot of harm, and to deny that is to deny reality.

Faith is a very very good idea, and is quite necessary for us to function... we arrogantly believe the world is mostly stable, follows sets of rules, and sometimes: that we're not crazy...

But we have to do that, or else we'll all die in doubt.

Personal faith in gods/the universe/the dream, on the other hand... is not as good of an idea. Maybe it helps a person here or there; maybe it hurts a person there or thither. But... it ends up being very much neutral.

...

Religion, which is the establishment of a doctrine which is to be fed to a mass of people such to grow the power of the 'clergy' in some self-righteous sanctimony... is a very very very bad idea.

No, faith is never good and not even science does that. Faith is when you don't take into account things change. Knowledge is when you test to insure you are making the best observations.

I put it this way. Yes the future is not written or a given. But our observations can give us reasonable expectations. That is as close to the word "faith" as I get without using the word "faith".

"Faith" is a meaningless word used to make excuses to be complacent.

I have no "faith" for example that my vehicle will start in the morning when I use it. But, based on it's current condition and that it is full of gas, I have a reasonable expectation knowing it's current condition, odds are high that it will start. If it does not start, then I have to adjust to the change in the observation. "Faith" would be ignoring what is in front of me.

I propose the word "faith" have its definition changed to be solely "belief without evidence". Then we can all easily distinguish between faith and confidence. And we can hit theists over the head with said dictionary every time they pull the false equivocation (surveys show up to 13 times a day in extreme cases).

(January 12, 2015 at 4:25 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Bu the cake is truth, right?

It's gotta be. It's my unbirthday, after all!

Oh dear, I've walked into the frying pan that is expressing my opinion where there be people with strong opinions... xD I should have better listened to Charlie...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nxoesda-QK0

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(January 12, 2015 at 4:26 pm)robvalue Wrote: I propose the word "faith" have its definition changed to be solely "belief without evidence". Then we can all easily distinguish between faith and confidence. And we can hit theists over the head with said dictionary every time they pull the false equivocation (surveys show up to 13 times a day in extreme cases).

Perhaps... but very few people believe anything without evidence... infact, people (especially those 'blinded by reason'), will fight tooth and nail to defend what they believe in absolutely... Religion serves only as a vehicle for this, and it is an effective brainwashing and control mechanic. But those blinded by their justifications can be spoken down, they can still learn:

Many of these smart people have to first realize that there is no justification that can for faith stand... that the faith to move mountains is one of zealotry, and not one that can possibly be rationalized. That's the key negative feature really being spoken to here: not that one believes whatever they might like to... but that *nothing will remove them from that belief.

We have a word for a 'strong belief that cannot be reasoned with'... Zealotry. Fanaticism.

I would say 'give them an enemy.... they want an enemy', but that's because I'm a bloodthirsty monster. Disarming them should do well enough... but you'll probably have to kill them first.