(January 16, 2015 at 6:40 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Yes these secularists are trying to force their beliefs on anyone. They stated that you shouldn't be allowed to be offended by something that they don't agree with. They want to formalise their own identity as law.

I believe in separation of any religious imposition on state affairs. Yours included.

You've got a bit of a misunderstanding there Fr0d0, it's impossible, by definition, to separate secularism from state when applying separation of church & state because:

1. that's what secularism is
2. secularism isn't a religion (or even an ideology), it's a political position on one matter (establishment of religion)

If you were to separate secularism from state, you would be establishing religion which you say that you oppose. Your statement is a contradiction.

(January 16, 2015 at 6:48 am)Ben Davis Wrote:

(January 16, 2015 at 6:40 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Yes these secularists are trying to force their beliefs on anyone. They stated that you shouldn't be allowed to be offended by something that they don't agree with. They want to formalise their own identity as law.

I believe in separation of any religious imposition on state affairs. Yours included.

You've got a bit of a misunderstanding there Fr0d0, it's impossible, by definition, to separate secularism from state when applying separation of church & state because:

1. that's what secularism is
2. secularism isn't a religion (or even an ideology), it's a political position on one matter (establishment of religion)

If you were to separate secularism from state, you would be establishing religion which you say that you oppose. Your statement is a contradiction.

Just like the word "capitalism" "secular" as popularly used is an abuse and a twisting of history.

Sectarian, refers to a specific section of a population. Sectarian can be either religious, political party or class.

Secular does not mean godless. Secular means NEUTRAL. Nothing more. I've tried to tell Frodo and have to battle this Red Scare crap the right has sold the gullible for the past 40 years, that religious people can be secularists too.

The right in this country has because of the likes of Jerry Falwell has taken what used to be a sane party and hijacked to create its own SECTARIAN Christian Jihad here in America.

Jefferson and Teddy Roosevelt would be horrified at the religious infection of politics to the right wing level it has become. The right in America is frothing at the mouth to look like the east.

(January 15, 2015 at 3:27 pm)Minimalist Wrote: They just can't stand it when people laugh at them.

In that, they are all alike.

Maybe if they got rid of the stupid hats?

(January 16, 2015 at 7:52 am)h4ym4n Wrote:

(January 15, 2015 at 3:27 pm)Minimalist Wrote: They just can't stand it when people laugh at them.

In that, they are all alike.

Maybe if they got rid of the stupid hats?

Police uniforms make sense. Military uniforms make sense. Even janitor uniforms make sense. Religious cloths to me are like dressing up like Captain Kirk or Luke Skywalker. They look as absurd as the clown show of a Royal Wedding.

(January 16, 2015 at 6:46 am)robvalue Wrote: No one is saying you shouldn't be allowed to be offended. That would be ridiculous. Who is saying that, can you provide a link?

If they are actually saying that, then they are insane.

---

What, two versions of what the pope said? I don't know, I've just seen him saying you can't criticize religion. I don't give a monkeys what he has to say about anything anyway.

I was addressing you when you said I could take the heat.

Did you watch him say those words? I've heard news reporters say both things on the same program writhing minutes of each other.

(January 16, 2015 at 6:40 am)fr0d0 Wrote: That doesn't mean I'm not offended. I graciously receive that right from this forum (to be offended and be free to voice that). Peace be upon it.

By all that's holy, fr0d0, don't insult the Muslims!!!

(January 16, 2015 at 8:53 am)Tonus Wrote:

(January 16, 2015 at 6:40 am)fr0d0 Wrote: That doesn't mean I'm not offended. I graciously receive that right from this forum (to be offended and be free to voice that). Peace be upon it.

By all that's holy, fr0d0, don't insult the Muslims!!!

No frodo, don't insult the Muslims, Jews, atheists or ABBA.

Especially not ABBA.

(January 15, 2015 at 3:21 pm)JesusHChrist Wrote: So many people, including secularists praise Pope Francis for being "reasonable" and in touch with the times.

And then we get this:

http://news.yahoo.com/pope-says-cannot-i...45221.html

Quote:But the 78-year-old pontiff also said "each religion has its dignity" and "there are limits".

"You cannot provoke, you cannot insult other people's faith, you cannot mock it," the pontiff said.

"Freedom of speech is a right and a duty that must be displayed without offending."

This from the leader of the organization who bandied about words such as blasphemer, heretic, spawn of Satan and who knows what else over the centuries. Guess what jackass, we'll continue to insult your worldwide criminal enterprise any time we wish.

I don't think this latest Papal utterance is going to help him on the PR front.

Why are the religious so afraid of mockery and verbal insults? Can't their god do something about it? I'm guessing they don't like it because it is working to make them look like fools.

The Pope exchanges 'quiet diplomacy' for flat out support for extremism. Well at least its a change in the Roman Catholic Church's previous stance of no action in relation to paedophile priests and Nazi death camps.

A new low even for an organisation already rotten through to the core, with fetid priests and corpulent cardinals who are so far removed from reality it's farcical.

MM

(January 15, 2015 at 7:36 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Yes Brian like calling atheists all of those things. Incitement is a thing. Whoever does it.

I disagree about secularists. The ones I've heard have an agenda to deny the identity of theists. They want to remove the right to love God.

Then either you are not listening or not understanding. Cite some examples.

(January 16, 2015 at 9:33 am)Chas Wrote:

(January 15, 2015 at 7:36 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Yes Brian like calling atheists all of those things. Incitement is a thing. Whoever does it.

I disagree about secularists. The ones I've heard have an agenda to deny the identity of theists. They want to remove the right to love God.

Then either you are not listening or not understanding. Cite some examples.

It is a myth that only right wing believers of all religions are politically correct. Political correctness is when you set up taboos to stifle criticism. North Korea and Saudi Arabia are examples of where taboos can lead.

Frodo does not understand it is not simply enough to get pissed at something that you hear or see to demand the silence of others.

If silencing others was based on getting pissed all 7 billion humans could think of things we don't like seeing or hearing. In the civil west you don't get to decide for everyone else what is or is not offensive.