Quote:The thing is, accepting responsibility for your actions means total annihilation, are you prepared to accept that? look at it this way, According to Hebrew law if you went into debt, and sold yourself into servitude, a kinsman (male relative) was able to purchase your freedom, this is referred to and the "kinsman redeemer"

It's not just, any more than the idea of eternal punishment, but I think if I went to heaven I wouldn't be me anymore. So either way I will be destroyed. Whether or not what's left of my mind and body will carry on after Yahweh gets done with me isn't really relevant.

Purchase my freedom by getting brutally murdered? If a guy thinks I owe him something, and cuts off his finger, then sews it back on, and asks me to accept what he did (and dedicate my life to him) or else he won't forgive me, I'll be calling the crazy house.

(February 5, 2015 at 12:46 pm)Chad32 Wrote: It's not just, any more than the idea of eternal punishment, but I think if I went to heaven I wouldn't be me anymore. So either way I will be destroyed. Whether or not what's left of my mind and body will carry on after Yahweh gets done with me isn't really relevant.

How is it not just? If you're headed down a path to destruction, and are warned of what lies at the end, but willfully refuse to listen and continue down the path anyway, who's fault is it when you come to ruin?

Can't blame God, Hell was not even created for humans, it was created for the "devil and his angels". You quite literally have to fight your way into hell.

As far as you "not being yourself" in heaven, whatever gave you that idea?

If you're of the belief that my soul will be destroyed if I don't convert, and I'm already of the belief that souls don't exist so I'll cease to exist when my body stops working anyway, what's my motivation to convert?

I go through my life trying to be the best person that I could be, but I didn't say the right words to the right deity, and I get destroyed or tortured. I go through my life killing people, eating their meat, using their skins as clothing and upholstery, but say the right words to the right god before I die, and I get into heaven. That is not justice, by any civilized definition of the word.

And why do the devil and his angels deserve hell? Even if Humans never went, what we do and what the demons did was the same thing. we all think the Abrahamic god is full of crap.

Apparently your god will change me so that I never disobey him. That means he'd have to drastically change who I am, and who everyone else is, so he can have a society in heaven where everyone gets along and worships him. I am all of my virtues and faults combined. I am my life experiences. If you take away so much of me that I can believe homosexuality is an abomination, but slavery, genocide, and rape of virgins is ok, then I'm not me anymore.

(February 5, 2015 at 1:13 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: As far as you "not being yourself" in heaven, whatever gave you that idea?

Well I'm sure that will come as a relief to you. Not having to give up a bit of sheep on the side (wink wink!) would be a lot to ask.

(February 5, 2015 at 12:38 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(February 5, 2015 at 12:12 pm)Chas Wrote: So, you're going to use the No True Christian™ argument?

2 Corinthians 11
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Matthew 7:15
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Romans 16:18
For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Shall I keep going?
The concept of false Christians is nothing new...

Matthew 7:1-3 King James Version (KJV)

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

(February 5, 2015 at 1:37 pm)Chas Wrote:

(February 5, 2015 at 12:38 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: 2 Corinthians 11
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Matthew 7:15
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Romans 16:18
For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Shall I keep going?
The concept of false Christians is nothing new...

Matthew 7:1-3 King James Version (KJV)

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Exactly, I Judged according to the word, which is what we all will be judged by.

Also you left part of that scripture out.
Matthew 7
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

In other words, a christian can't correct another if his own life is a mess, if he is living an exemplary life, he has every right to correct someone who isn't living right.

I just whooped your ass [austin 3:16]

(February 5, 2015 at 12:31 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: I guess you already forgot that I clearly stated "for arguments sake, if God was Malevolent, What are you going to do about it?". Everything I said was as it relates to a malevolent God.

... or, alternatively, I can see clearly that between the earthquakes and malignant tumors and whatnot, that your god, as described, is indeed malevolent.

If your god exists, your conditional clause is certainly not hypothetical.

(February 5, 2015 at 1:22 pm)Chad32 Wrote: If you're of the belief that my soul will be destroyed if I don't convert, and I'm already of the belief that souls don't exist so I'll cease to exist when my body stops working anyway, what's my motivation to convert?

Well I guess you'd better hope you're right.

(February 5, 2015 at 1:22 pm)Chad32 Wrote: I go through my life trying to be the best person that I could be, but I didn't say the right words to the right deity, and I get destroyed or tortured. I go through my life killing people, eating their meat, using their skins as clothing and upholstery, but say the right words to the right god before I die, and I get into heaven. That is not justice, by any civilized definition of the word.

The thing is, you can live a life good enough to get into heaven, that is why the law was given to the Jews, to prove you aren't able to keep the law.

It's not as simple as just "saying words", it's making a sincere decision to turn away from former transgressions, and becoming a new creature, and starting over from a new slate. In God's eyes the past transgressions never existed.

(February 5, 2015 at 1:22 pm)Chad32 Wrote: And why do the devil and his angels deserve hell? Even if Humans never went, what we do and what the demons did was the same thing. we all think the Abrahamic god is full of crap.

Did you forget that the tried to overthrow God?

Quote:Jude 1
6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

(February 5, 2015 at 1:22 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Apparently your god will change me so that I never disobey him. That means he'd have to drastically change who I am, and who everyone else is, so he can have a society in heaven where everyone gets along and worships him. I am all of my virtues and faults combined. I am my life experiences. If you take away so much of me that I can believe homosexuality is an abomination, but slavery, genocide, and rape of virgins is ok, then I'm not me anymore.

No, you have to change before you get into heaven, which is why you must be reborn, through water.

Quote:John 3:3
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

(February 4, 2015 at 10:35 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: But for arguments sake, if God was Malevolent, What are you going to do about it?

Not go on the internet and foolishly try to defend the indefensible, that's for sure.