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RE: Raging Rudy Giuliani Destroys Obama's Policies on Islam
February 25, 2015 at 10:52 am
(February 25, 2015 at 9:45 am)mralstoner Wrote: Equating ISIS with Christians and the Crusades?
You're an idiot talking out of his ass.
AD 1096, first crusade. Christians slaughtering the jewish communities of Europe on their way to the holy land.
AD 1099, Christians capture Jerusalem and put all it's citizens to the sword. Jews, Muslims, even fellow christians.
That's common knowledge if you know how to open a history book. But you rather listen to rightwing pundits. So stupid is as stupid does, as Forrest Gump would say.
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RE: Raging Rudy Giuliani Destroys Obama's Policies on Islam
February 25, 2015 at 11:28 am
(February 25, 2015 at 10:46 am)mralstoner Wrote: This might be a desperate grasp to find "moderate" Muslims to support. Just like McCain will die in a ditch to support the Syrian rebels. It's madness. Forget trying to find moderate Muslims. I don't know any so I don't believe they exist.
Fixed it for you.
They're not hard to find. I know several.
That's your cue to bring out the "no true scotsman" fallacy BTW. In your own time...
"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken."
Sith code
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RE: Raging Rudy Giuliani Destroys Obama's Policies on Islam
February 25, 2015 at 11:59 am
Quote:In Australia, I only just got wind of it.
Yes...it does take a while for brain farts to waft across the ocean. Sniff it up deeply if you like.
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RE: Raging Rudy Giuliani Destroys Obama's Policies on Islam
February 25, 2015 at 12:02 pm
(February 25, 2015 at 10:46 am)mralstoner Wrote: (February 25, 2015 at 10:34 am)ManMachine Wrote: I'm not going to watch it.
In December 2010 Rudy Giuliani traveled to Paris to speak at a conference in support of Mujahideen-e-Khalq, an Iranian Marxist group listed on the State Department terror list. He glowingly mentions MEK in the video (might be in Part 2), as an example of moderate Muslims that he wants to support, apparently they are led by women, but I've never heard of them before.
Of course not. Before I realized exactly how stupid you are, I tried to engage you reasonably and point out that moderate Muslims do indeed exist, and they do indeed take actions to support their stances. You plugged your ears and shouted.
(February 25, 2015 at 10:46 am)mralstoner Wrote: I've not heard the terrorism angle on this particular group before but, either way, it's pointless to support moderate Muslim groups because they have no solid theological foundation to support their beliefs. So, I don't agree with Giuliani on this point.
It follows then that using Giuliani as an authoritative opinion on Obama is equally questionable. Otherwise, you're cherry-picking.
(February 25, 2015 at 10:46 am)mralstoner Wrote: This might be a desperate grasp to find "moderate" Muslims to support. Just like McCain will die in a ditch to support the Syrian rebels. It's madness. Forget trying to find moderate Muslims. It's futile.
... especially when you're so biased that you cannot see them.
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RE: Raging Rudy Giuliani Destroys Obama's Policies on Islam
February 25, 2015 at 12:11 pm
I play poker with a Muslim couple times a month. She's not tried to behead me yet although she does slow roll worse than anyone I've ever met! Moderately annoying.
"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken."
Sith code
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RE: Raging Rudy Giuliani Destroys Obama's Policies on Islam
February 25, 2015 at 12:35 pm
Lies! Muslims aren't allowed to have fun!
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RE: Raging Rudy Giuliani Destroys Obama's Policies on Islam
February 25, 2015 at 12:48 pm
(This post was last modified: February 25, 2015 at 1:00 pm by Simon Moon.)
(February 25, 2015 at 10:52 am)abaris Wrote: (February 25, 2015 at 9:45 am)mralstoner Wrote: Equating ISIS with Christians and the Crusades?
You're an idiot talking out of his ass.
AD 1096, first crusade. Christians slaughtering the jewish communities of Europe on their way to the holy land.
AD 1099, Christians capture Jerusalem and put all it's citizens to the sword. Jews, Muslims, even fellow christians.
That's common knowledge if you know how to open a history book. But you rather listen to rightwing pundits. So stupid is as stupid does, as Forrest Gump would say.
Oh no!
Not facts!
He doesn't want facts. They mess with his delusions and bigotry.
(February 25, 2015 at 9:45 am)mralstoner Wrote: Equating ISIS with Christians and the Crusades?
Actually, you are correct. ISIS has a long way to go before they even approach the carnage caused by the Christians in the Crusades.
Here's just a sample:
after 6/3/98 Antiochia (then turkish) conquered, between 10,000 and 60,000 slain. 6/28/98 100,000 Turks (incl. women & children) killed. Here the Christians "did no other harm to the women found in [the enemy's] tents—save that they ran their lances through their bellies," according to Christian chronicler Fulcher of Chartres.
Jerusalem conquered 7/15/1099 more than 60,000 victims (jewish, muslim, men, women, children). (In the words of one witness: "there [in front of Solomon's temple] was such a carnage that our people were wading ankle-deep in the blood of our foes", and after that "happily and crying for joy our people marched to our Saviour's tomb, to honour it and to pay off our debt of gratitude")
Christian chronicler Eckehard of Aura noted that "even the following summer in all of palestine the air was polluted by the stench of decomposition". One million victims of the first crusade alone
Battle of Askalon, 8/12/1099. 200,000 heathens slaughtered "in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ".
Rest of Crusades in less detail: until the fall of Akkon 1291 probably 20 million victims (in the Holy land and Arab/Turkish areas alone).
You were saying...
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Raging Rudy Giuliani Destroys Obama's Policies on Islam
February 25, 2015 at 1:24 pm
(February 25, 2015 at 12:48 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: (February 25, 2015 at 10:52 am)abaris Wrote: You're an idiot talking out of his ass.
AD 1096, first crusade. Christians slaughtering the jewish communities of Europe on their way to the holy land.
AD 1099, Christians capture Jerusalem and put all it's citizens to the sword. Jews, Muslims, even fellow christians.
That's common knowledge if you know how to open a history book. But you rather listen to rightwing pundits. So stupid is as stupid does, as Forrest Gump would say.
Oh no!
Not facts!
He doesn't want facts. They mess with his delusions and bigotry.
(February 25, 2015 at 9:45 am)mralstoner Wrote: Equating ISIS with Christians and the Crusades?
Actually, you are correct. ISIS has a long way to go before they even approach the carnage caused by the Christians in the Crusades.
Here's just a sample:
after 6/3/98 Antiochia (then turkish) conquered, between 10,000 and 60,000 slain. 6/28/98 100,000 Turks (incl. women & children) killed. Here the Christians "did no other harm to the women found in [the enemy's] tents—save that they ran their lances through their bellies," according to Christian chronicler Fulcher of Chartres.
Jerusalem conquered 7/15/1099 more than 60,000 victims (jewish, muslim, men, women, children). (In the words of one witness: "there [in front of Solomon's temple] was such a carnage that our people were wading ankle-deep in the blood of our foes", and after that "happily and crying for joy our people marched to our Saviour's tomb, to honour it and to pay off our debt of gratitude")
Christian chronicler Eckehard of Aura noted that "even the following summer in all of palestine the air was polluted by the stench of decomposition". One million victims of the first crusade alone
Battle of Askalon, 8/12/1099. 200,000 heathens slaughtered "in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ".
Rest of Crusades in less detail: until the fall of Akkon 1291 probably 20 million victims (in the Holy land and Arab/Turkish areas alone).
You were saying...
To a large extent this is why the Muslims are a little bit touchy.
It was a long time ago, but some people just can't seem to let things lie.
It could have been worse...could've been some cartoons.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: Raging Rudy Giuliani Destroys Obama's Policies on Islam
February 25, 2015 at 2:06 pm
(February 25, 2015 at 12:48 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Rest of Crusades in less detail: until the fall of Akkon 1291 probably 20 million victims (in the Holy land and Arab/Turkish areas alone).
You were saying...
It's also a bit ironic that the crusaders were exactly like ISIS in another field too. The muslim world back then was educated and cultured for it's largest part. The Christian world on the other hand was so primitive that they even let the Roman structures like aqueducts fall to ruins.
If it hadn't been for mingling with muslims, we wouldn't even have the freaking number zero to calculate with. Emperor Frederick II saw this and being very interested in science, opened his realm for all religions and ethnicities. The result was a ban by the pope in 1245.
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RE: Raging Rudy Giuliani Destroys Obama's Policies on Islam
February 25, 2015 at 2:17 pm
(This post was last modified: February 25, 2015 at 2:46 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(February 25, 2015 at 2:06 pm)abaris Wrote: (February 25, 2015 at 12:48 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Rest of Crusades in less detail: until the fall of Akkon 1291 probably 20 million victims (in the Holy land and Arab/Turkish areas alone).
You were saying...
It's also a bit ironic that the crusaders were exactly like ISIS in another field too. The muslim world back then was educated and cultured for it's largest part. The Christian world on the other hand was so primitive that they even let the Roman structures like aqueducts fall to ruins.
If it hadn't been for mingling with muslims, we wouldn't even have the freaking number zero to calculate with. Emperor Frederick II saw this and being very interested in science, opened his realm for all religions and ethnicities. The result was a ban by the pope in 1245.
I think the 20 million casualty figure of the crusades must have been based on the same census which told of 4 million Persians under Xerxes I invading Greece.
But the basic point is valid. crusades certainly did kill many times more muslims than ISIS could ever aspire to kill of all kinds of people.
(February 25, 2015 at 7:33 am)Gawdzilla Wrote: "President Obama didn't live through September 11 -- I did."
— Rudy Giuliani
If President Obama didn't live through September 11, then he must be truly precocious to have won a presidential election at the age of less than 8.
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