(March 6, 2015 at 9:48 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Define "fundamentalism." The entire country of Saudi Arabia is an asylum for fundies.

Yeah, I can vouch for that through personal experience. I spent time in that funny farm during the first gulf war.

A minority, and that is a true fact.
If you think I like Muslims & defend them, think again. I was scorched by the heat of this region, and no, I didn't feel a religious burn in most of my burns.

Do you know that Arab Muslims hate Persian Muslims ? Saudi Arabian people -who are all Muslims by estimates- hate the guts of Pakistani Muslims. Do you see a common theme here ? RACISM.

I lived in Egypt enough, to get hammered by the Muslim society there -and the christian one- for my nationality : I'm so mixed I don't even have a race. They called me names, abused me, I met with syrians who did the same, and syrians in general are sunni muslims.

Islam was mixed with the native cultures of the region -which were racist and abusive from ancient times-, to produce a terrible mixture that you can't understand. What middle easterns do, let's go again into the verse battle, i'm willing to quote for you exactly that the quran didn't call for any single detail of what you see committed by muslims of today.

Oh well, most stories about Mohammed peace be upon him are no religion ; these are texts collected & produced in the huge libraries of medieval Baghdad & Damascus, we all know that the bible was forged the same way.

Anything which was forbidden in the quran, turned "kosher" via these texts. wanna an example ?

In the quran, it's forbidden to kill captured enemy soldiers. The Ummayads came up with these stories to negate the quranic verses : since there's a story saying mohammed killed prisoners, then let's ignore the verse and do like him !

Google wahabism, salafism. This is what your girlfriend need to read about.
Yeah also tell her to read about the "sykes & picot" agreement that forged the modern Muslim states of arabia. How islamic to preach islam, yet behind the curtains you shake hands with the allies you call infidels to give you a land and introduce you to nationalism : )

oh well, who mentioned islam anyways ?

(March 6, 2015 at 8:37 pm)Dystopia Wrote: I really need to know this. Basically my girlfriend hates Islam (for obvious reasons) and she is in a class about multiculturalism, so her professor accused her of being Islamophobic because she showed dislike towards the religion of Islam and the consequences attached to it. He proceeded to tell her that Muslim fundies are only 0.1% of the population of Muslims. He also told her that discriminating based on religion is equally bad as discriminating based on race or gender (forgetting that people do choose religion but not things like race)

I have doubts that fundies are so little in number. She needs to prove him wrong, obviously - So, can anyone tell me where to find sources? Anything will help

I'm not sure about this but I think he got the sources from the council that deals with Muslims' human rights issues, so I doubt it's reliable.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Security-...cts-please

http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/09/10/musl...st-groups/

There are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. .01% would still be sixteen million radicals. It's quite possible you are both right.

But I agree with him that judging all Muslims by the minority is unjustified.

There's lots of resources at Pew Research about religion. You can find various polls they have conducted there - such as views on death for apostates. From the various polls (conducted in a variety of countries) you should be able to deduce how many are what you might describe as "fundamentalist".

Pew is a great resource.

Would it be fair to say that your average Islam moderate is more extreme than your average christian moderate? Immoral shit wise.

I'm getting that impression, but maybe I'm wrong.

(March 7, 2015 at 3:41 pm)robvalue Wrote: Would it be fair to say that your average Islam moderate is more extreme than your average christian moderate? Immoral shit wise.

I'm getting that impression, but maybe I'm wrong.

That's what I've thought too. It might be a fair assessment but we have to define the term "moderate" first. The word moderate often gets thrown about without much thought I think. I personally struggle to understand who these "moderates" actually are. It also helps to define the term "fundamentalist". The percentages of each group will obviously depend on how exactly they are defined.

Certainly, those advocating Salaf (Salafists, Wahhabis), prevalent wherever there is Saudi Arabian money, are more much more extreme. Wahhabis have been around for centuries now. Their founder is Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab who was born 1703 and died 1792. Clearly, they are not a recent invention whereas Salafists are. My understanding is that Salafists are really Wahhabis (because both groups are pretty much the same) that do not want to be associated with Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab. The terms are sometimes used interchangeably anyway.

I'm sure if one looks hard enough they can find decent people of any religion. I've met a couple of people named Muhammad in the past and they were nice people. To be fair though, none had a beard and they appeared quite Westernised.

Those working at the Kebab house near me are nice people too. Or do I let my love of fine Arabian/Turkish cuisine blind me? They appear to be non-practicing however. Personally, I love Kebabs too much to vote for any Fascists (but that's not the only reason in case anyone is wondering) because we need people with the correct cultural background to work in the food outlets, in my opinion.

Here's an idea: The New Testament is one step forward from the Old Testament and then the Quran is one, perhaps two, steps back. Or not. Maybe I'm comparing 'apples and oranges' as they say but I think the Old Testament is on par with the Quran - in terms of advocating violence at least. Although perhaps it is worse. Both Testaments are much longer than the Quran so obviously they are going to be more detailed.

(March 7, 2015 at 5:45 pm)MrNoMorePropaganda Wrote: It might be a fair assessment but we have to define the term "moderate" first. The word moderate often gets thrown about without much thought I think. I personally struggle to understand who these "moderates" actually are. It also helps to define the term "fundamentalist". The percentages of each group will obviously depend on how exactly they are defined.

A fair point. I've known many "moderate" Christians who can be expected to caucus with the fundamentalists on social issues and when it comes time to vote GOP. What makes them "moderate" is that they accept evolution and are willing to interpret some parts of scripture metaphorically. We should not assume that just because someone is a "moderate" that it necessarily means they are secularists or would support the separation of Church and State.

(March 7, 2015 at 6:13 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote:

(March 7, 2015 at 5:45 pm)MrNoMorePropaganda Wrote: It might be a fair assessment but we have to define the term "moderate" first. The word moderate often gets thrown about without much thought I think. I personally struggle to understand who these "moderates" actually are. It also helps to define the term "fundamentalist". The percentages of each group will obviously depend on how exactly they are defined.

A fair point. I've known many "moderate" Christians who can be expected to caucus with the fundamentalists on social issues and when it comes time to vote GOP. What makes them "moderate" is that they accept evolution and are willing to interpret some parts of scripture metaphorically. We should not assume that just because someone is a "moderate" that it necessarily means they are secularists or would support the separation of Church and State.

Yes, by some definitions a moderate Muslim is someone who simply doesn't commit suicide bombing