Somebody wake me up when we graduate to talking about the prophet splitting the moon.

(March 18, 2015 at 8:16 pm)Brian37 Wrote: IT DEPENDS on when and where that dictates your behavior, not "never". If we never blasphemed anything we would still be living in the dark ages.

A critical mentality is a must to arise a civil community, but it gotta have its limits, whenever it starts to cross the borders I mentioned before : making a person doubt, for example, their brain capabilities

Stimbo





It's a fact that it exists, Stimbo. and the expansions of black holes mean one thing : we'll get sucked inside ; too.
The rip theory isn't yet the final conclusion, as the big crunch also makes sense and has its evidence, and this SMBH now adds up more cream to the mixture.

http://www.quora.com/Will-the-black-hole...-our-earth

Nooooo Stimbo I don't think this is utter crap !

Quote:If we do manage to survive being kicked out of the galaxy, then eventually the Sun (or Earth) will fall into the central galactic supermassive black hole after around 10^30 years (1 nonillion). Current estimates are that there's about a few percent chance that this happens. So, if we wait long enough, yes, we might end up merging with our central supermassive black hole. In this case, long enough doesn't mean millions of years, but about 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 million years!

Of course, this isn't certain. I mentioned that it was more likely that we'd be kicked out of the galaxy. As it turns out, there are other possible processes astronomers have thought about by which we could still end up in a black hole, though we don't really know.

JuliaL

Quote:You were confronted on a specific, easily refuted with minimal research, false claim you made.
You have admitted the claim was false.

Yes, I deserve a cookie.

Quote:1) you are not a serious person.

No, I'm dead serious. Don't think I treat the book I believe in & the god I worship with disrespect. Never. Being sarcastic or involving a cheap joke here or there is my defense mechanism to eliminate heat. Never think that it indicates I'm not serious.

Quote:2) you are not an intelligent person.

My work speaks for me. The programmers who can write C++,java, PHP, javascript, full mastery of the android platform, soon to reach full mastery of ASP.NET (with C#), along with SQL, can never, ever, be unintelligent enough. Especially after knowing, that the author's english (along with his programming skills) were 90% developed via self study.

Nah I know I'm intelligent enough. Not a narcissist though. And thank god for what he gave me..

Quote:3) you did research your claim, knew it was false, yet for your amusement put it forward here thinking we were too stupid to refute it.

I personally know -after 2 years on this forum- that many members work at unversities, or poses very very very high certificates in physics and related scientific fields, along with many others who studied history extensively .
and I'm not the type of person who lies or underestimates others.

Quote:4) you were too lazy to research your claim.

Yes ; I didn't research probably, and counted on my sources alone, putting in my head that mentions of greek are no more that conquistador attempts to keep the knowledge stream european ; which your link -about the indian scholar- did make me think twice.

Quote:5) you are unable to evaluate your claim because your mind has been so clouded by religious indoctrination.

Cultural and racist, I would say.

And here I say it with a bold again :
SHAME ON ME.


But am I totally wrong ? no. Great empires did make attempts to steel knowledge and re-write it in its name, and dante's inferno is a huge example.

Quote:Only the second possibility was not worthy of ridicule as it is not your fault.
Those who mocked you here were only playing the odds.

Ah it's fine. I can't control how people see me.

Beccs

What a drauger !

Chuck

elaborate.

Stimbo

The black hole is nothing but a scientific fact that I'm trying to link with the Quran..and I didn't say "at any time".
The controversy of the afterlife is actually all about this.

and yet I didn't grasp my evidence, though I might after a "certain amount of years" of research.

Cato


Yes, a few :

Quote: (66 ) Said the eminent ones who disbelieved among his people, "Indeed, we see you in foolishness, and indeed, we think you are of the liars."
( 67 ) [Hud] said, "O my people, there is not foolishness in me, but I am a messenger from the Lord of the worlds."
Al-A'RAAF
http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#a...rans=en_sh

Quote:( 52 ) Similarly, there came not to those before them any messenger except that they said, "A magician or a madman."
http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#a...rans=en_sh

Quote:( 27 ) [Pharaoh] said, "Indeed, your 'messenger' who has been sent to you is mad."
http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#a...rans=en_sh

About those who don't accept the truth :

( 256 ) There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.
http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#a...rans=en_sh

Sorry for enlarging the above, yet because no matter how much I copy this verse and paste it, non-Muslims would still ask the same question.

Cato, I care not about the Hadith, THIS IS WHAT THE QURAN SAYS ABOUT THOSE WHO DON'T BELIEVE AND WHAT WE SHOULD DO TO THEM : NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION.

Which is a secular concept, if you can't see.

Why do you take Sunnies & Shittes as your "source of Islamic acts" ? Sunna & Shia forged the Islam and don't practice the Quran purely btw, they practice the Hadith more.

Cato, if the Quran is god's word, then no hadith, or an ayatollah or a goddamn Imam, can come and contradict its verses and still be called "islam". Yet sunnah & shia did that ; i actually don't consider them an example of islam.

I swear that the Quran didn't order to kill non-Muslims -or anybody else-, unless they started to kill. And I brought forth many verses to say, that once they cease, muslims shall cease too.

Furthermore I used the "no compulsion" verse, but yet you and many others ignore it, to repeat the same broken record !

STOP THINKING THAT SUNNI ISLAM OR SHIA ISLAM IS THE TRUE RELIGION.

And about splitting the moon ? nah mohammed peace be upon him didn't do that, you'll only find that in the Hadith, while the verse directly says :

Quote:( 1 ) The Hour has come near, and the moon has split [in two].
( 2 ) And if they see a miracle, they turn away and say, "Passing magic."
http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#a...rans=en_sh

That, is the only verse about the moon crack. Nobody knows when it was, or if it ever happened, and probably the verse points to an event that would take place near judgement day ; not even in Mohammed's peace be upon him's time.

Sunna & Shia, via hadith, said it was Mohammed who did it.

The source didn't say it. It was forged via the hadith that mohammed did it.
The source only said the above.

Quote:The rip theory isn't yet the final conclusion, as the big crunch also makes sense and has its evidence, and this SMBH now adds up more cream to the mixture.

Big rip and big crunch are not the only options - in fact, they currently seem to be the more unlikely and rather speculative options, whereas the evidence points towards continued expansion and heat death.

(March 19, 2015 at 6:44 am)Alex K Wrote: Big rip and big crunch are not the only options - in fact, they currently seem to be the more unlikely and rather speculative options, whereas the evidence points towards continued expansion and heat death.

There's a Quranic verse actually that says

Quote:( 47 ) And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander.
http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#a...rans=en_sh

But I'll be wiser than saying, it supports the expansion theory.

Thank you for pointing that out ; Alex.

The ancient Egyptians had the ability to observe the sun. That didn't mean they knew it what it was made of or what as causing it's behavior. Nor did it make any of their polytheistic gods real.

Muslims are not the only ones to pull this tactic.

I had met once a fan of Aquinas, he claimed that Aquinas knew about QM. I asked him for his evidence, no math no formulas, just gave me an ambiguous quote.

That would be no different than saying the polytheistic gods of the Greeks were the real gods because that is where the word "atom" came from. "Atom" was not used back then in the same modern scientific way it is now. It was just a thought of "the smallest indivisible object you could imagine. They had no clue how small things really were or what they were made of or how they behaved. It merely meant small back then.

ALL religions do this. I've had others argue Jewish texts. Of course Christians do it. I've run into a couple of Hindus and even once a Rastafarian. If religion cant debunk science it tries to co opt it.

(March 19, 2015 at 6:36 am)AtlasS2 Wrote: It's a fact that it exists, Stimbo.

I don't deny that. Most, if not all, large galaxies have one at their centres. It's what makes them active.

(March 19, 2015 at 6:36 am)AtlasS2 Wrote: and the expansions of black holes mean one thing : we'll get sucked inside ; too.

That's the part I take issue with. As black holes expand, they also dissipate at the same rate. Even so, our black hole isn't a threat to anything except whatever passes within its direct sphere of influence; everything else orbits around it. We are some 30,000 lightyears away from it. But even if we take it that eventually it will expand such that its gravity takes in the whole of our galaxy, the Earth will have been long gone by then. That's the part I labelled "utter crap"; the scenario in which the Earth is on a course towards our black hole.

Incidentally, objects aren't sucked into black holes - they fall into them.

(March 19, 2015 at 6:36 am)AtlasS2 Wrote: The rip theory isn't yet the final conclusion, as the big crunch also makes sense and has its evidence, and this SMBH now adds up more cream to the mixture.

Irrelevant to my point, so I won't address it other than to acknowledge.

(March 19, 2015 at 6:36 am)AtlasS2 Wrote: Nooooo Stimbo I don't think this is utter crap !

Weeeelllllll, I can't help what you think.

(March 10, 2015 at 2:52 am)AtlasS2 Wrote: First, I will show you the Quranic verses that says that loud & clear :

( 5 ) He created the heavens and earth in truth. He shapes the night over the day in a round-shape, and shapes the day over the night in a round shape, and has subjected the sun and the moon, each running [its course] for a specified term. Unquestionably, He is the Exalted in Might, the Perpetual Forgiver. Page 458

So right after telling us that the verses are loud and clear, your first comment is to point out that it's translated wrong. Couldn't any of these ancient holy texts simply stated that god formed the Earth into a sphere that spun on its axis and orbited the Sun which was at the center of the solar system? In, like, plain language that anyone could understand? Why is it always words that translate into "round" or "circle"? Couldn't they have explained the basics of gravity and given humanity a head start on making progress in understanding the universe?

And maybe he could've told them to treat their women better while he was at it.

Why are people still discussing this? In regard to the Quran saying the universe is expanding, I posted an entire topic on the subject of Quran 51:47. There is no consensus on how to translate Quran 51:47 - many (most) don't use the word "expanding". It is my opinion that newer translations are contain lots of biases because they have the benefit new science and are post 'science in the Quran' narrative too. For example, when Abudallh Yusuf Ali or Marmaduke Pickthals published their Quran translations people didn't believe the universe was expanding and, as a result, their translations, say that the universe is a vast expanse (instead of saying it's expanding).

AtlasS2, I kindly ask that you stop cherry picking Quran verses and translations. The topic I linked to above also has an analysis of some of the translations of Quran 23:14 later on - another verse that people often misuse. I feel that many contemporary translators of the Quran are extremely dishonest and let their own desires (such as fame or monetary gain) get in the way of honest Quran translation. For example, one translation of Quran 23:14 forces the word "sperm" into the verse.

(March 19, 2015 at 6:36 am)AtlasS2 Wrote: I swear that the Quran didn't order to kill non-Muslims -or anybody else-, unless they started to kill. And I brought forth many verses to say, that once they cease, muslims shall cease too.

You should probably re-read The Immunity then.

Also, I have never taken a position claiming the superiority or pureness of Sunni or Shia doctrine; I'm not sure where you got that idea. I think it's all horseshit.

I will also ask you to quit using the silly argument that Islam is only the Quran. This is certainly your opinion and I know this view is shared by other Muslims, but you are in a very small minority. The fact of the matter is that for most of the Islamic world, the hadiths are central to the practice of Islam even though the Quran holds supremacy. Your disagreement doesn't change this fact nor does it exonerate Islam as a whole.

Working to shift the practice of Islam away from the hadiths is a step in the right direction, but I doubt you'll get far espousing this doctrine in Islamic states. The amusing thing is that only with the protection afforded freedom of religion in liberal democracies can the attempt be seriously made. I can only see the quest as a step in the right direction because there is still a lot of baggage in the Quran that is contrary to the freedoms enjoyed in first world countries. The same can be said of the other Abrahamic texts so I'm not just picking on Islam here.

(March 18, 2015 at 10:26 am)AtlasS2 Wrote: Though, my second theory is still valid : Islam helped in making this model an international & widely accepted one..I think many too agreed on that.
But the topic itself, and the original idea, yes I was wrong.

Nope. Islam didn't help, subjugates of the early islamic state did. Understand...that's not islam doing anything. That's people doing things, like they always do.