(April 3, 2015 at 1:09 pm)A Theist Wrote:

(April 3, 2015 at 11:15 am)Esquilax Wrote: And would the same courtesies be extended to those wanting to not serve christian weddings?

Sure. If a muslim business, for example, has an issue with serving Christian weddings then the business shouldn't be forced to do so. I'd go to another business establishment that would.

That would be a freaking mess. It's not in the public's best interest. Are we going to have Republican-only supermarkets or car washes that only accept American cars or sports bars that refuse to serve Yankees fans? It just wouldn't make for a practical community.

People need to grow up.

What if I have a religion that gets randomly offended depending on the roll of a die for each customer? If it's a 6, I'm offended and I won't serve them.

Respect my religious ridiculous arbitrary beliefs!

(April 3, 2015 at 1:24 pm)Pyrrho Wrote:

(April 3, 2015 at 12:01 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: I take it then that as a Christian, if you were treated as a second-class citizen, refused service (at whichever level you choose to stipulate for this conversation) based solely on your faith ("We won't serve bigots!"), that you'd take it quietly, without so much as a murmur, and with no cries of "persecution!"? You'd eschew using your right to free speech and clam up about it? Take it like a man?

If so, you're a very rare Christian, indeed. 

That isn't a fair comparison, because Christians are common as dirt in this country, so it would be easy to find someone who would serve him.  To be a fair comparison, it would have to be that many businesses would refuse to serve him, like black people experienced 3/4 of a century ago.

The "if" indicates that the situation is hypothetical. I wasn't drawing a complete comparison, as should be obvious; I was comparing the treatment at the service desk, not the social attitudes of any given pair of historical eras. 

I was asking what his feelings would be based on the actual treatment he received. It's pretty simple.

I'm still looking forward to his answer.

(April 3, 2015 at 1:34 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote:

(April 3, 2015 at 1:22 pm)Mezmo! Wrote: So now free enterprise is set aside so as to make businesses instruments of government social engineering. "You will be made to care!"

Suppose a dominatrix with slave in tow asks a halal caterer to serve at their collaring ceremony/wedding. Does anyone here think that the government should force the halal caterer to do so even though he/she disapproves of BDSM relationships?

If your going to operate a public catering business then you have to abide by anti-discrimination laws, the business does not get to circumvent the law because of the owners personal beliefs.

Unless, those laws....

Quote:

Quote:"unduly burdens the practice of religion" without a compelling interest, even though it might be "neutral on its face," would be unconstitutional

...we'll have to wait and see how this all plays out in the courts.

How exactly does selling pizzas to a gay couple "unduly burden" the practice of one's religion? Is there an 11th commandment that states as such or something?

(April 3, 2015 at 12:01 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote:

(April 3, 2015 at 11:06 am)A Theist Wrote: The pizza shop owner indicated that she didn't have a problem with gays coming into her business and ordering pizza. However, she would have a problem catering a gay wedding because of her religious beliefs. The compromise: allow her business to continue serving gays and the rest of the public in her establishment, but not forcing her and other business owners of faith to accommodate gay weddings and anything else associated to gay marriage, which would be contrary to their religious beliefs.

I take it then that as a Christian, if you were treated as a second-class citizen, refused service (at whichever level you choose to stipulate for this conversation) based solely on your faith ("We won't serve bigots!"), that you'd take it quietly, without so much as a murmur, and with no cries of "persecution!"? You'd eschew using your right to free speech and clam up about it? Take it like a man?

If so, you're a very rare Christian, indeed. 

Christians are already under attack in this country. Where did I say that gays or anyone else couldn't speak out if they felt their rights were being violated? ....which bigots? You mean the intolerant anti-theist bigots such as yourself?

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(April 3, 2015 at 2:23 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: How exactly does selling pizzas to a gay couple "unduly burden" the practice of one's religion?  Is there an 11th commandment that states as such or something?

The pizza shop owner didn't say she would refuse selling pizzas to gay people. She said she wouldn't cater a gay wedding because of her religious beliefs against gay marriage.

(April 3, 2015 at 2:33 pm)A Theist Wrote: Christians are already under attack in this country. 

Hahahahahahaha!  Oh, you poor, poor, persecuted Christians.  Seriously?  Dude.  I know you're not this daft...

(April 3, 2015 at 2:33 pm)A Theist Wrote:

(April 3, 2015 at 2:23 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: How exactly does selling pizzas to a gay couple "unduly burden" the practice of one's religion?  Is there an 11th commandment that states as such or something?

The pizza shop owner didn't say she would refuse selling pizzas to gay people. She said she wouldn't cater a gay wedding because of her religious beliefs against gay marriage.

And the question I've asked a few times in this thread is, if she had said she'd refuse to serve gays, would you be okay with that being legal?

(April 3, 2015 at 2:20 pm)A Theist Wrote:

(April 3, 2015 at 1:34 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: If your going to operate a public catering business then you have to abide by anti-discrimination laws, the business does not get to circumvent the law because of the owners personal beliefs.

Unless, those laws....





...we'll have to wait and see how this all plays out in the courts.

Well considering they have already revised the law, it probably wasn't going to play out very well in court. The revised law explicitly bars a business from denying services to someone on the basis of categories that include sexual orientation and gender identity.

Religion is under constant, relentless attack from reality. Keep a bag on your head at all times. Don't let your kids near the Internet, they might find some of those evil facts!