(April 19, 2015 at 7:34 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Mystic...you don't -know- anything about any "satanic attacks"...buddy...cmon....come back to me....wtf is going on man? You remember your pal Rhythm..we used to have conversations....I used to think you were sane.....?  When you first started in on this shit, I honestly thought you were having a go at us...I keep waiting for the winking smiley.

Even if you were to explain the blindness to the recitations as something else than effect of dark forces, it's still a major thing that the author of Quran knew it was in Quran but that people still need a clear delivery (5:67), and as such, despite designing the verses in a way that they are clear with sincere reflection, the author knew people would see the wrong recitations. However, I think, due to the right recitations being clearer and more logical of the two, and the one that is confirmed by other verses of Quran, I think there are dark forces at hand on the hearts of people.

 

(April 19, 2015 at 11:46 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:  

Oh, bull. 

Yep. Gotta love those dark forces.

Guy walks in cave (alone no less), walks out with angel visited him and delivered Quran story. Get's my second place prize for the most ridiculous bullshit on earth (first place, of course, goes to Joseph Smith and the Mormon fable)

(April 19, 2015 at 11:46 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(April 19, 2015 at 7:34 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Mystic...you don't -know- anything about any "satanic attacks"...buddy...cmon....come back to me....wtf is going on man? You remember your pal Rhythm..we used to have conversations....I used to think you were sane.....?  When you first started in on this shit, I honestly thought you were having a go at us...I keep waiting for the winking smiley.

Even if you were to explain the blindness to the recitations as something else than effect of dark forces, it's still a major thing that the author of Quran knew it was in Quran but that people still need a clear delivery (5:67), and as such, despite designing the verses in a way that they are clear with sincere reflection, the author knew people would see the wrong recitations. However, I think, due to the right recitations being clearer and more logical of the two, and the one that is confirmed by other verses of Quran, I think there are dark forces at hand on the hearts of people.

 

Look, you really need to stop thinking there is some magical boogieman in battle with a magical super hero. You really are not doing anything different in our species history when it comes to making claims. You are gap filling and seeing what you want to see.

You resist like theists with other god claims do. You allow your fear of being wrong, combined with a case of the warm fuzzies, to prevent you from stepping out of your Candyland bubble.

We are not being blunt to hurt you, we are being blunt in hopes you will wake up.

Mystic, You should understand there is absolutely no point in writing all the text and stories. All the thing about satanics, dark sides, and god's grace. Because they are empty words unless you have something that is going to PROVE those words.
To construct an argument, you need some facts, something to be true about the topic you speak. That is the base of your argument, and if you don't have it, you lose the debate from the very beginning. Religion tries to solve that problem saying: Just believe. If I told you I am mister world, you would ask me to prove it to you. You don't believe water is wet untill you touch it. But you do believe there's an invisible man in the clouds who has unimmaginable power?
Here's were science, logic, rationalism always win the argument. Before claiming something you must prove it. Evidence.
Because reading Harry Potter doesn't make me believe Harry is a god ( i repeat that like the 3rd or 4th time...)

And here's some questions for you:
1)have you read The Bible or any other Holy Book?
2) If yes, then why did you dismiss all those religions. Why do you think that, among the thousands of religions in this world, only yours is true.
3) Have you studied them all, have you tested them all? Do you know all other religions to say that they are not quite right? Did you make your choice (The Quran) based on proof that it's the right way, or you just choose it because it comforts you.
4) What are your arguments to say/prove that everyone, EVERYONE, is wrong, or/and only muslims are right?
5) Then again, how did you decide that your way is the best?
6) When you are ill, do you pray, or go to the hospital?

And these questions can be given to absolutely any, ANY religion, because, after all, all those "paths" simply don't make sense and contradict themselves at one point or another.

What I'm showing by this is the following:

1. These verses have an interpretation proven by either logic, flow of verses, or other parts of the Quran.
2. The true interpretation is the more clearer of the interpretations.
3. The false interpretation is assumed for some reason by majority of Muslims.
4. This cannot be rationally explained by natural reasons, there is a reason as to why they can't recite the verses with true interpretation when it's supported by logic or flow of verses or other parts of the Quran, and is also the clearer of the interpretations.
5. The best explanation is that there a supernatural influence on the people to prevent them from seeing the family of Mohammad, the Imams of guidance, and their position in Quran.
6. The dark forces being enemy to the family of Mohammad and the true recitation of Quran, is best explained if the family of Mohammad are true Guides and the dark force doesn't want the Muslims to recognize this.

I think it's an argument that is rational. For example "Then we inherited the book to those who we chosen from our servants" - the way the word astafa is used through out Quran refers to exalting way above and specially choosing for a higher position (I showed all twelve verses they are used in and you can see that) and refers to specifically the best of humanity and as Talut verses show, they are those who are the true kings given authority of God. But Sunnis through out Quran in all other 11 verses see it to mean that, except, when it states there is chosen ones that inherited the book after it was revealed to Mohammad (saw).

I see this as irrational but the irrationality cannot be justified by simply natural means, but this blindness must be have a supernatural cause. If there was no dark attacks on the heart, I think by naturally, people would see the verses more rationally and not always assume the illogical non-rational meaning that go against other verses of Quran, logic, and flow of the verses.

To me, it's a manifest that there is hidden dark forces that are enemies to the family of Mohammad. Aside from that, the fact the Quran showed people needed to be conveyed a message by the Prophet about Ali and his position and that is family is of the 2nd weighty thing left by the Prophet along with Quran in more clear terms showing that despite how clear they are in Quran to sincere reflection, there is a covering and blindness to them by the masses! That says a whole lot about the author of Quran, as if it knew people's hearts and their veils and that they would not see the more clearer of the interpretations and that one that is confirmed by logic and other verses of Quran.

(April 21, 2015 at 5:21 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: What I'm showing by this is the following:

1. These verses have an interpretation proven by either logic, flow of verses, or other parts of the Quran.
2. The true interpretation is the more clearer of the interpretations.
3. The false interpretation is assumed for some reason by majority of Muslims.
4. This cannot be rationally explained by natural reasons, there is a reason as to why they can't recite the verses with true interpretation when it's supported by logic or flow of verses or other parts of the Quran, and is also the clearer of the interpretations.
5. The best explanation is that there a supernatural influence on the people to prevent them from seeing the family of Mohammad, the Imams of guidance, and their position in Quran.
6. The dark forces being enemy to the family of Mohammad and the true recitation of Quran, is best explained if the family of Mohammad are true Guides and the dark force doesn't want the Muslims to recognize this.

I think it's an argument that is rational. For example "Then we inherited the book to those who we chosen from our servants" - the way the word astafa is used through out Quran refers to exalting way above and specially choosing for a higher position (I showed all twelve verses they are used in and you can see that) and refers to specifically the best of humanity and as Talut verses show, they are those who are the true kings given authority of God. But Sunnis through out Quran in all other 11 verses see it to mean that, except, when it states there is chosen ones that inherited the book after it was revealed to Mohammad (saw).

I see this as irrational but the irrationality cannot be justified by simply natural means, but this blindness must be have a supernatural cause. If there was no dark attacks on the heart, I think by naturally, people would see the verses more rationally and not always assume the illogical non-rational meaning that go against other verses of Quran, logic, and flow of the verses.

To me, it's a manifest that there is hidden dark forces that are enemies to the family of Mohammad. Aside from that, the fact the Quran showed people needed to be conveyed a message by the Prophet about Ali and his position and that is family is of the 2nd weighty thing left by the Prophet along with Quran in more clear terms showing that despite how clear they are in Quran to sincere reflection, there is a covering and blindness to them by the masses! That says a whole lot about the author of Quran, as if it knew people's hearts and their veils and that they would not see the more clearer of the interpretations and that one that is confirmed by logic and other verses of Quran.

More empty words...
1)Proven by logic? I don't see any logic in flying invisible men that just keep staring at us for thousands of years.
2)empty...
3)empty...
4) You totally devastated the argument. Look what you are saying: a clear interpretation, supported by logic, can't be explained rationally ( aka logically ), or by natural reasons. It's like saying green is green because it's green, but you can't logically say it's green because naturally it's not green.
5) so you actually confirm to have studied all other religions, and islam seems to be the true one... Really?
6) Again, when you are ill, do you pray or go to the hospital?

And one last thing. If everybody except muslims is wrong, how come we are still living? How come all christian world, for example has a normal life, like all other believers. How come your god hasn't dealed with the "sinners" that believe in another god, not him?

I repeat. All the things you are saying to me, I can't believe them. Nobody will. You know why? Because they aren't proven. Now look. If i told you that I'm the actual real god. What would you do? I'd tell you that I am the true one, and you are all deluded by dark forces, and you all think that other gods are true, but satan lied to you. I'm the true one, and you must simply believe in my interpretation. What would you say? Would you believe me right now? NO! You would ask me to prove it to you. Well, I'm asking you to prove it too, but the only thing you are saying is that he is the god... PROVE IT! Untill then, I'm the good. And you can't argue because you seem not to need proof to that.

If I used the same arguments you use, to prove that a boot, or a cat is the god. You would say I'm crazy, now how come you believe it when a book says that? How come you buy that?

See how illogical and stupid it is ?

Now look at these three posts, 2 by me and one by you. Read carefully. Try to understand exactly all you and I wrote. And ask yourself. Who seems to make more sense?

MK just invoked a 'flow of verses' proof. I'm quite confident he's not channeling his inner Heraclitus. Does anyone else know what the fuck this means?