(April 21, 2015 at 7:22 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:Not everything that's wrong with their politics is our fault.

Correct.  The British and French helped a great deal.

And so did Sultan Mehmet II.

That was 600 years ago....they should have worked that out by now.


Here you go, D-P.  Just for you.

The Tea Party almost blew the U.S. out of the water with that joke. For I while I thought they we're going to force the default.

So did they.

And they didn't care because the rich bastards who they represent would have been fine while everyone else was fucked.

(April 21, 2015 at 7:42 pm)Minimalist Wrote: That was 600 years ago....they should have worked that out by now.

The Turks screwed them continuously all the way up to 1918.   The Turks were every bit as loathed by the desert Arab in 1918 as we Americans are now by the jihadists, and probably more feared.     It wasn't purely through personal magnetism and exaggeration of British honor that T. E. LAurence succeeded do in uniting waring Arab tribes against the Turks.

I admit I don't get giggly and excited at the prospect of voting for Hillary. But Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders aren't going to run as the Democratic nominee unless Hillary has an untimely stroke or something else comes up to make her unfit to run. So the two I would love to vote for will have to wait for their season or for a clear path to the democratic nomination. They won't split the vote and run with a third party.

Like me, they're practical. Incremental change is about all our botched system of government is capable of, and if you try to vote for anything other than the Democratic party you'll risk giving up even that much improvement. Holding your nose is the only way to go. Or you can ignore history and bring on incremental worsening instead.

(April 21, 2015 at 8:25 pm)whateverist Wrote: I admit I don't get giggly and excited at the prospect of voting for Hillary.  But Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders aren't going to run as the Democratic nominee unless Hillary has an untimely stroke or something else comes up to make her unfit to run.  So the two I would love to vote for will have to wait for their season or for a clear path to the democratic nomination.  They won't split the vote and run with a third party.  
Like me, they're practical.  Incremental change is about all our botched system of government is capable of, and if you try to vote for anything other than the Democratic party you'll risk giving up even that much improvement.  Holding your nose is the only way to go.  Or you can ignore history and bring on incremental worsening instead.

Hillary has shown she is more than willing to drag us to the right than act like anything resembling a Democrat. As I said before, I'd rather have a Republican win than Clinton because at least the hypocritical Democrat supporters would turn against the BS policy she would have supported (when they would support it just because she did).

It was absolutely sickening to see "liberals" make an about face on what they supported as soon as Obama changed his tune.

Nope. It'll just tip the system toward enabling the 1% and their minions to take an ever bigger piece of the pie.

(April 21, 2015 at 8:29 pm)whateverist Wrote: Nope.  It'll just tip the system toward enabling the 1% and their minions to take an ever bigger piece of the pie.

Still better than having Democrats agree we should drone women and children, calling them terrorists.

(April 21, 2015 at 8:26 pm)Polaris Wrote:

(April 21, 2015 at 8:25 pm)whateverist Wrote: I admit I don't get giggly and excited at the prospect of voting for Hillary.  But Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders aren't going to run as the Democratic nominee unless Hillary has an untimely stroke or something else comes up to make her unfit to run.  So the two I would love to vote for will have to wait for their season or for a clear path to the democratic nomination.  They won't split the vote and run with a third party.  
Like me, they're practical.  Incremental change is about all our botched system of government is capable of, and if you try to vote for anything other than the Democratic party you'll risk giving up even that much improvement.  Holding your nose is the only way to go.  Or you can ignore history and bring on incremental worsening instead.

Hillary has shown she is more than willing to drag us to the right than act like anything resembling a Democrat. As I said before, I'd rather have a Republican win than Clinton because at least the hypocritical Democrat supporters would turn against the BS policy she would have supported (when they would support it just because she did).

Obama got pulled too. The ACA could have been single payer or universal but the GOP watered it down, it is still better than what we had. And he's also done some trade deals which I don't like.

But like others have said Dems are slowing this shit down. I think it is up to democratic voters to do a better job at showing up to the polls in all elections local and national and also think long term. We also need to take the GOPs cold war "dems are Stalin lovers" cold war crap trying  to paint us as anti private sector. And we need to stop their doomsday foreign policy warmongering meme too.