Kitan Wrote:Because black people have a legitimate reason to riot, you are going to resort to the black stereotype because you are too fucking ignorant to understand the reasoning behind the riot? Grow the fuck up, dude. I do not have time for your childish shit.

"Legitimate reason to riot"? The only reason you're typing horseshit like that is because it wasn't your business burnt down. If it was your drug store, you'd be singing a different tune, as sure as the Sun rises in the East.

The proper answer to racism is not breaking the shit of random people. Undirected violence does nothing but sow further seeds.

You clearly have much to learn.  Unfortunately, you've only yet learnt how to shout; listening is a skill life will teach you at its leisure ... and with little mercy.

Good luck.

(April 26, 2015 at 12:37 pm)Napoléon Wrote: Came across this video and thought I'd share it here. Wondering what people think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDxgJq4toYo

I have not read all the replies. I watched some of the video because I have actually seen this before. The man makes some decent points. There is one thing I want to say regarding the whole slavery issue. Yes, there were slaves and then slavery was abolished. We as a nation are constantly reminded of the fact that there were slaves. Black people even have an entire month dedicated to their history. However, what you don't see is all of the Natives, that were here long before the "white man" acting like they are an oppressed society. Think about it - when was the last time there was a Million Man March for the TRUE indigenous peoples of this land? Do they have their own college fund that is as well known as the UNCF? Do they have someone like Sharpton getting on tv and speaking out about how we stole their land and pushed them out? Are Native American Indians constantly in the news because of being oppressed, killed and persecuted?

So... Where is Native American history month?
Where is the United Native American College Fund?
Where are the colleges that are dedicated solely to the Native American Indians?

You might find some sort of scholarship if you dig deep enough. But what you will find doesn't have the familiar ring of anything well known.
If anyone has the right to claim they've been oppressed, it's them. We invaded their country, stole their land and killed AND enslaved thousands of them. Maybe they don't speak out because of pride. Or maybe it's because they have too much respect for themselves and their culture and refuse to act like victims. I have no idea but I welcome thoughts on this because it's something that has seriously gotten overlooked. I welcome your thoughts because the race card has been over-used time and time again as a piss poor excuse for when things go wrong in this country. Maybe we all need to be held accountable for our OWN actions and stop blaming other things. Maybe we need to look at our own choices and decisions. Perhaps we need to look at the parents who don't give a shit about what their own kids are doing and hold them accountable for how their kids turned out. There is a lot wrong with society today but what seems to be the thing many have come back to - especially when the police are involved, is that damn race card.

The rioting and vandalism needs to stop, but as long as people continue to act like they are still being persecuted and treated as if they have no civil rights, there will always be violence. But you don't see the Natives of this country doing that. Maybe they carry themselves better than the rest of the world. Maybe they have a higher or deeper level of thinking and have realized that it is not worth it to harbor resentment over what happened hundreds of years ago.

(April 28, 2015 at 10:24 pm)Judi Lynn Wrote: But you don't see the Natives of this country doing that. Maybe they carry themselves better than the rest of the world. Maybe they have a higher or deeper level of thinking and have realized that it is not worth it to harbor resentment over what happened hundreds of years ago.

It's probably a factor that there's a lot fewer of them too.

(April 28, 2015 at 10:26 pm)Napoléon Wrote:

(April 28, 2015 at 10:24 pm)Judi Lynn Wrote: But you don't see the Natives of this country doing that. Maybe they carry themselves better than the rest of the world. Maybe they have a higher or deeper level of thinking and have realized that it is not worth it to harbor resentment over what happened hundreds of years ago.

It's probably a factor that there's a lot fewer of them too.

I don't think that's a factor, honestly. I think they are just a better class of people who refuse to play the martyr card.

I've been watching this one from the sidelines for a while.  I admit my view may be a little skewed by where I grew up.  In the 70s where I lived there were very few black people.  Those there were worked for IBM and their parents made rather more than mine.  They were very bright kids with bright driven parents.  But they had clearly made it.

Before I begin, I have some basic notes:

1) Slavery happened and it was evil;
2) Jim crow and segregation happened and they were evil;
3) Discrimination is less than it was, but still very much alive and well;
4) Walking/driving while black remains an offense in much of the U.S.
5) I think U.S. policing needs oversight.  I think anti discrimination laws are a good thing.  Scholarships for black students are also a good idea.


But, while white America has a long ways to go, so does black America.  Currently, blacks who get good grades, get real jobs, etc. are looked down on by the black community in poorer neighborhoods for "looking white."  That's like cutting off your leg before entering in a kicking contest. And in poorer areas blacks do criminally target Korean and other minority business owners.  That's discrimination.

Black people in poorer neighborhoods could use some ambition and gumption.  Other minorities have eventually flourished here.  Blacks do not generally.  But there was a time when it was just as bad if not worse to be Chinese.  Now Chinese Americans do better on average than White Americans.  That has to do with culture.  A culture that says give up and don't try is not a good culture.

That is what the initial video in this thread was about.  It was a rallying cry for black people to do well rather than give up.  That's good advice even if the deck is stacked.  And the young black man making that rallying cry is right.

  

(April 28, 2015 at 10:27 pm)Judi Lynn Wrote: I don't think that's a factor, honestly. I think they are just a better class of people who refuse to play the martyr card.

I don't know. I think cultures are definitely different between these two sets of people, on the whole. I do think though that people pay less attention to native Americans because there's a lot fewer of them.

Having said that, who do you think is more likely to be hired with an equivalent CV? Someone from native American descent? Or an 'African' American? Do you think it's equal in terms of opportunity? I'm not so sure, from my perspective across the pond, native Americans seem to be treated with much more inherent respect than most black people.

But maybe it is like you say and their reputation is different because of the fact their culture is different. Their attitudes are different.

To me it's the community attitudes that are important, not so much whether people are justified in playing race cards or any of that other shit. So from that point of view, I agree that (from what I've seen) native Americans seem to have their shit together a lot more so than black communities do.

One thing I've noticed is native Americans have a strong sense of pride. A lot of people in black communities seem to have nothing to be proud of.

(On a slightly related note, anyone else think the term 'African American' is bloody ridiculous?)

Yes... that term is ridiculous. Not all people from "Africa" are black. Cape Town is a majority Caucasian town. So I guess if a white person came over here from Africa, they could, technically check off the "African American" box, because they are from Africa.

I think it's a derogatory term, personally. It is a constant reminder that the black people's ancestors came from Africa to America as slaves. It's also misleading. Trinadad is not in Africa. Jamaica is not in Africa. Not all black people come from Africa, so in reality, the term "African American" shouldn't apply in some cases. Using the term to differentiate someone based upon the color of their skin, is wrong. Just my opinion though.

As far as hiring someone with an equal CV, there are other factors that should be considered during the job interview process. I would think that a respectable employer would be fair and would base their decision on how well the interview went, how the questions were answered, how the interviewees dressed, talked, etc. So many variables.

I agree with your statement:

Quote:A lot of people in black communities seem to have nothing to be proud of.

Because many places are filled with run down houses, unkempt yards, trash everywhere, drug dealers on every corner etc. It's just a depressing place to drive through. I know of several streets in Baltimore city that you don't EVER go down at night. Other streets - entire city blocks - are abandoned. Homes sitting empty and boarded up so the vagrants don't squat there. If no one takes pride in helping to clean up their community, then no one else will either.

I'm obviously late to this party so I'll try to be succinct in catching up:

Nap: I think the video you posted in Post #38 would have been a better lead-in to the conversation. That young man's words could easily be applied to anyone, regardless of the motivation for making the video. You've also been quite undeserving of the blatant misrepresentation of your position. 

Dystopia: You are the prime offender regarding misrepresentation. I'm not quite certain that it's intentional since your ideas seem scattered, inconsistent, and very reactive without much depth. I'll assume that you simply have a reflexive desire not to offend resulting in your inability to rationally discuss the topic of race. If what I've read is a thought out representation of your true opinion then just imagine me staring you in the eyes while repeatedly jamming my forefinger and middle finger into my forehead (I think I can safely assume you know the meaning of this).

I'm somewhat glad that I couldn't engage in this thread immediately; allowing me to digest everything to date. The sad part is that there's no real engagement. The white dude that brings up race, particularly in a manner that challenges the narrative that society at large is wholly and fully responsible for the plight of the entire black community, is immediately vilified. As always, the vilification isn't brought on by someone from the black community, but by well meaning whites that translate their superficial understanding and deep seated misplaced empathy in a world that suggests it's better not to talk about it because it's uncomfortable. Those that knowingly or unknowingly shut down conversation by misrepresenting what's being argued by taking an extreme interpretive position proves my point. It's also the broader point made by the man in the video in post 38; nothing gets resolved.

There is no justification of rioting if the goal is to change people's minds. It's as futile as a toddler throwing a temper tantrum in an attempt to influence a parent's behavior. The reaction to the attention that is sought is not likely to be favorable. We have a laugh at toddlers because we don't expect much from their reasoning capability. We react differently to rioters, not because we don't empathize with the supposed reason behind the behavior, but because the consequences don't achieve the goals and we have an expectation that humans of a certain age should have the capability to sort this through. If you can't get your point across and effect change through non-violent means then you better be prepared for the long game; namely, the defeat and wholesale subjugation of your adversary. Another reason why riots are more like temper tantrums than rebellions. 

I will leave my commentary here for now. I have much more to share regarding the economic aspect of this conversation, particularly sharing personal experiences regarding the ability and opportunity to escape poor conditions (btw, I hate the oversold idea of the American Dream). Non-government coerced segregation is also alive and well, but my observations suggest that this is also economic and not primarily race based.

Later.

(April 28, 2015 at 11:06 pm)Cato Wrote: Nap: I think the video you posted in Post #38 would have been a better lead-in to the conversation. That young man's words could easily be applied to anyone, regardless of the motivation for making the video. You've also been quite undeserving of the blatant misrepresentation of your position. 

I'll admit I didn't really frame the discussion in the first place. For that I can only apologise. Still, I thought it fairly obvious what the point was.

(April 28, 2015 at 11:20 pm)Napoléon Wrote: I'll admit I didn't really frame the discussion in the first place. For that I can only apologise. Still, I thought it fairly obvious what the point was.

Dude, your OP was fine in my opinion; which I give after 8 pages of hindsight. I know I used the preface Nap, but the comment following was mostly for the clarification of others that didn't immediately understand what you were after.

Edit: more to add...

I thought it was obvious too; however, reality based on the reaction of others suggests otherwise.