(March 10, 2015 at 1:27 am)psychoslice Wrote: I'm glad you see the reason, because I certainly don't see any reason for your backward ignorant thinking.

When you can put together a reply that accounts for my points, I'll give your opinion weight. Until then, you're simply calling names, and not discussing, and are unworthy of any further consideration.

(March 10, 2015 at 10:43 am)Parkers Tan Wrote:

(March 10, 2015 at 1:27 am)psychoslice Wrote: I'm glad you see the reason, because I certainly don't see any reason for your backward ignorant thinking.

When you can put together a reply that accounts for my points, I'll give your opinion weight. Until then, you're simply calling names, and not discussing, and are unworthy of any further consideration.

Excuse me, you were the one who started this name calling, I speak nice to those who speak nice to me, so go back right from the start and see how you started this conversation, no one walks over me bud.

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/bali-n...public_rss
IN OMINOUS signs for the Bali Nine ringleaders Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, the Indonesian Attorney-General’s office has sent letters to the prosecutors of all 10 death row prisoners due to face the firing squad, ordering them to prepare the executions.
The letters were sent on Thursday and authorities say they are the official orders to get everything prepared ahead of the date of the executions being announced.
The Attorney-General’s spokesman, Tony Spontana, was quoted on Indonesian wire service, Detik, as saying the only thing left now was to announce the date.

http://www.smh.com.au//breaking-news-wor...3v108.html

Quote:Australians Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran have been executed by Indonesia.

The Jakarta Post, quoting an Attorney General's Office official, says eight of the nine prisoners on death row have been shot dead by firing squad.

Mary Jane Fiesta Veloso of the Philippines was spared.

The Bali Nine drug smuggling ring leaders were executed by firing squad on the island of Nusakambangan just before 12.30am local time (0330 AEST) on Wednesday.

"We've carried out the executions," an AGO official, talking to the press on condition of anonymity, said, The Jakarta Post reported.

The others executed were Indonesian Zainal Abidin, Brazilian Rodrigo Gularte, Nigerians Sylvester Obiekwe Nwolise, Raheem Agbaje Salami and Okwudili Oyatanze, and Ghanaian Martin Anderson.

I don't know what to say. I feel those two were rehabbed. I also don't equate drug distribution to deliberate murder. But apparently it's worse than hat out there. This young American couple who were accused of beating the female's mother to death and stuffing her in a suitcase in Bali got off, with, I think, 20 year terms.

It's Indonesia. They are a sovereign nation of sovereign people. But then, so is America. We're backwards at times, but not that badly.

I'm actually on another forum, and this very debate about "should Indonesia execute drug offenders?" came up last month. I was pissed off because people were taking a P.C stance about "oh well, their culture" instead of just saying it how it is.

My opinion is it's backwards, whatever way you cut it up. It's a petty crime.

At any rate, wouldn't it be far more economical for Indonesia to tackle the problems the lead people into drugs in the first place? They're killing people for the symptom and not actually dealing with the cause.

Yes, I think that would be wise for any country. Nail the problem before it even becomes a problem if possible. Education.

As well, I don't like when punishment and politics mix. I think Joko Widodo let this happen for some sort of personal gain, like wanting to look tough on crime.

He seemed really likeable in some documentary I watched that showed him biking the streets of Jakarta like Joe Citizen, and even talking with some locals at some minimart somewhere.

I think Australian's now just want to know how we're going to punish Indonesia for giving us the finger.

The death penalty is barbaric and uncivilized - regardless of the crime. It is a legitimate thing to kill in order to prevent someone from committing an evil act but if they have already done so, what's the point? Better to make them do restitution and/or rehabilitate them.

One of my good friends is from the Philippines, and they have similar laws to Indonesia. He says that in these countries, the natives will get prison while only the tourists get death. That just seems really bad to me, it's like they're baiting other countries into conflict with them

(April 28, 2015 at 1:58 pm)c172 Wrote: I don't know what to say. I feel those two were rehabbed. I also don't equate drug distribution to deliberate murder. But apparently it's worse than hat out there. This young American couple who were accused of beating the female's mother to death and stuffing her in a suitcase in Bali got off, with, I think, 20 year terms.

It's Indonesia. They are a sovereign nation of sovereign people. But then, so is America. We're backwards at times, but not that badly.

America is backwards because they still practise the death penalty even though it's been abolished in virtually all other democratic first-world countries.

Back just 50 years ago, the death penalty was supported by the vast majority of people living in first world democracies, there's been a shift in values away from it.

The disturbing thing about this case in particular were that the pair were described as model prisoners and were credited with reducing (in fat almost eliminating) drug use in the prison and reducing prisoner disorder. We see this right across the world is that when prisoners are given the opportunities to do meaningful work and participate in meaningful activities that their self-value increases and consequently they behaviour increases as well. The more oppressive prisons with less activities and opportunities for the prisoners see more disorder and violence from the prisoners.

Drug dealing crimes are in my opinion one of the worst possible criminal offences. And if you wanted to use the death penalty at all then I would agree that drug smuggling cases would be a good one to target. I don't disagree with that at all - I don't believe in the death penalty either, I'm just playing devil's advocate and explaining that I do see why you would want to use the death penalty against drug smuggling criminals. But on the other hand the prison superintendent said the pair were "model prisoners" and had contributed not just to the drug reduction in the prison, but Sukumaran had also led English and other classes (including art), and was responsible for around 20 other prisoners. Chan helped organise courses and led church services in the prison.

President Widodo made it an election promise not to show any leniency towards drug smugglers. I do not do believe that he had to; the pair had a recommendation from the prison superintendent that they should be taken off death row. That wouldn't be showing leniency, that would be acknowledging the advice of the prison officials that the prisoners were an asset to them and to the other prisoners. By not commuting the sentences Indonesia has shown they cannot use capital punishment responsibly and sensibility.