Bunch of people lining up to protect the Baltimore police:



Front page of reddit, thought I'd share for those who don't go on it.

I keep coming across videos, got another one I'd like to share:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrRUwPMU3Xo

This is the same guy you might have seen doing a Michael Jackson in the midst of the riots in Baltimore. I also have no idea why he is shirtless.

He made this video in 2014 and it was likely in response to Ferguson. Maybe the most idealistic video I've posted, but I still think the sentiments he mentions apply massively here.

(April 26, 2015 at 7:40 pm)Napoléon Wrote: Nothing on this? Would of thought AF would be all over a topic like this...

I mean I even mentioned gun laws.

*Huff puff*.

Sorry I'm late. None of this would have happened if black people had guns.

On a srs note, and I can't speak about black people in the US because I'm not from there, there are definitely instances of inward looking 'communities' (a term I hate but for lack of a better one) that thrive on otherism and enjoy isolationism. People prefer the company of others who are of the same race/ethnicity/cultural background/religion (and so on), so seeing ghettoisation here in the UK shouldn't be a surprise, and it's something we definitely haveseen in several towns and cities. People of Pakistani and Bangladeshi origin tend to be the lowest performing in education and have higher rates of poverty than any other demographic. There are constant attempts to reach into those communities to try and uplift them into integrating into the rest of society (I'm talking in parsimonious terms here, the actual politics is rather more nuanced), but the results have been poor. No real increase in integration, and no real breakthrough in breaking down the barriers between these communities.

Partly this is because government, both local and national, have given with one hand and taken with the other (animosity towards the PREVENT agenda which is seen in some communities as trying to create Uncle Toms), but the other reason is a victim mentality amongst some influential members of given communities on government action and intervention (and of course the media). There are numerous examples of this, such as the Trojan horse scandal in Birmingham schools, with influential members within some Asian constituencies claiming it was a government conspiracy against them and an attempt to tarnish their communities, despite the fact that the people who were most vocal about extremism within these schools were themselves members of those communities and teachers within those schools.

I dunno, it's far too early in the morning and I've got a fuck load of accruals to post.

(April 28, 2015 at 8:46 pm)Kitan Wrote:

(April 28, 2015 at 8:42 pm)Napoléon Wrote: Guess you're also glad about the white people who got beat up and had their shit stolen? About the cars set on fire? About the stores that have absolutely nothing to do with anything getting looted. 

Because black people have a legitimate reason to riot,

Not all Black people in Baltimore felt that way. The people in that community started out with peaceful protests to make their voices heard. It was opportunistic thugs who rioted, looted, and torched their own neighborhood where others live and work. They did nothing but  create misery for the people who live and work in that community. What "legitimate" good came out of that?

Saw this comment on BBC news:

"Baltimore has a black Mayor, black Police Chief, black Assistant Chief of Police, a police force that is 43% black, a City Counsel that is 78% black, a black City Counsel President, a City State's Attorney that is black, etc., etc. The outgoing and incoming Attorney Generals for the United states are black as well as our President. I would say blacks are pretty well represented in that city."

I haven't checked up on this statement, but if it's true, wouldn't the person who wrote that comment be true regarding representation of African Americans in Baltimore? Seems like accusations of under-representation are unfounded?

Well, there are over 600,000 people living in Baltimore city. The majority of them are black. Yes, the mayor, chief of police, council president, etc that you mentioned are indeed all black. So I would have to agree that they are very well represented.

(April 28, 2015 at 11:49 am)AFTT47 Wrote:

(April 28, 2015 at 8:40 am)thesummerqueen Wrote: Scanning through this, Nap, I feel like you're trying to make a false dichotomy. Not every racist situation is going to be the same. Not every minority is going to be suffering from the same problems, and not every white person is going to be acting out of the same motives. Saying "is it an excuse or not?" Why can't it be both? There are so many nuances and factors going into racism and the plight of minorities, you can't begin to untangle why situations like that happen.

Studies have been done about how having ethnic names on applications makes those people less likely to get call backs on jobs. Doesn't matter what the rest of the application says. Send the same application in with a "white" name and those applications get lots more call backs. How far does personal responsibility go there?

It IS both. There ARE plenty of bigots out there - more than I would have thought. We all saw them show their ugly asses when Obama was elected - like roaches scurrying out from under the refrigerator when the light is switched off. But the black community continues to provide those human roaches with ammunition by living up to their stereotype.

I admit that black people still get a raw deal compared to others. It's unfair and it sucks. Other groups have faced prejudices and persecutions too, however. Asians weren't exactly welcomed here with opened arms but they worked hard, got ahead and earned respect. Blacks have wallowed in self-pity and lashed out in violence - often against their own. They have built an entire culture based around bad behavior and ignorance. In both cases, I'm speaking of a community as a whole, of course - not individuals.

African Americans need to do better. One of the biggest things they need to do IMHO is to embrace those of their own who succeed rather than treating them as outcasts. Similarly, they need to disown those who are career thugs. Barack and Michelle Obama should be seen as the heroes of the black community. Colon Powell, Condolezza Rice and our favorite, Neil Degrasse Tyson. Not fucking rappers. I would bet that this is the root of the frustration of the guy who made the video. His fellow blacks are backing the wrong people and because he is black, people assume he is the same by default. There other blacks who have taken this same position including Reginald Finley - The Infidel Guy. There are also the guys who made this.

 
I served in the U.S. Air Force from 1985 - 1995. I saw no difference in how different races were treated there and I saw many black people flourish. That's not for everybody but there are other venues too. They could become cops and try to change the system from the inside. Those able and so-inclined could go into academia where prejudice is almost non-existent. The bottom line is that there ARE avenues available.

I'm pretty sure many in the black community DO see those people as heroes. And there are plenty of whites who think Kid Rock is a real American Cowboy as well. The black community has people on both sides - they're not all united under glorifying rappers any more than all of us atheists unite under PZ Myers' turkey gobbling.

Also, I'm not getting notifications on several threads that there are updates, and it's not showing up in my UCP.

(April 29, 2015 at 3:11 am)Pandæmonium Wrote:

(April 26, 2015 at 7:40 pm)Napoléon Wrote: Nothing on this? Would of thought AF would be all over a topic like this...

I mean I even mentioned gun laws.

so seeing ghettoisation here in the UK shouldn't be a surprise, and it's something we definitely haveseen in several towns and cities. People of Pakistani and Bangladeshi origin tend to be the lowest performing in education and have higher rates of poverty than any other demographic. There are constant attempts to reach into those communities to try and uplift them into integrating into the rest of society (I'm talking in parsimonious terms here, the actual politics is rather more nuanced), but the results have been poor. No real increase in integration, and no real breakthrough in breaking down the barriers between these communities.

Partly this is because government, both local and national, have given with one hand and taken with the other (animosity towards the PREVENT agenda which is seen in some communities as trying to create Uncle Toms), but the other reason is a victim mentality amongst some influential members of given communities on government action and intervention (and of course the media). There are numerous examples of this, such as the Trojan horse scandal in Birmingham schools, with influential members within some Asian constituencies claiming it was a government conspiracy against them and an attempt to tarnish their communities, despite the fact that the people who were most vocal about extremism within these schools were themselves members of those communities and teachers within those schools.

I completely agree.

This to me, unlike black people in America, is self-inflicted. It's members of the Muslim community isolating themselves because they are too stubborn to adopt British values. I've come across many successful British Asians of Muslim background, but the ones who are successful are almost always the ones who have secularised. They are still very much Muslim and take it seriously, but not to where they're cut off from everyone else.

Britain is racist, I'm not going to deny it, we do have a history of it. However, generally speaking the Afro-Caribbeans, Africans, the Hindu and Sikh Indians, and the East Asians all get by relatively better in the UK, without coming into such frequent conflict with British people and values. It's not always a perfect fit and there is racism against these groups too certainly, but they do usually fit in better and have become accepted integrated British subcultures. These Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities haven't achieved that, they're still seen as totally foreign on British soil, and it says more about Islam than it does Britain in my opinion.

(April 29, 2015 at 8:19 am)thesummerqueen Wrote: I'm pretty sure many in the black community DO see those people as heroes. And there are plenty of whites who think Kid Rock is a real American Cowboy as well. The black community has people on both sides - they're not all united under glorifying rappers any more than all of us atheists unite under PZ Myers' turkey gobbling.

Missing the point though Summer. Seemingly, it's the majority who glorify the 'gangster' culture, it's the majority who say "fuck the police", it's the majority that revel in a culture that does nothing but keep them down. Seemingly.

We've already established multiple times throughout the thread that there are people who buck the trend. Ofcourse every person is different. But I honestly think you've got your head in the sand if you don't see the problems that their apparent culture poses.

Take this for an example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ7dc07WxJk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYLepQQNQCU

In the videos, you see black people on both sides. You see a black police officer. Ofcourse not every black dude is united in glorifying rappers. Does this shit really need to be said?

But look at the attitudes that seem most prevalent. For most of these people on this street corner, instead of seeing the police as people there to help, they see them as the enemy. "Don't snitch". C'mon, let's be real, you really saying to me that the attitudes displayed here don't represent a significant proportion of people in black communities? Even if it's 0.00000000001% of the population of black people in America that think this way, that's not the point. The point is that these attitudes seem to be representative of the whole, and they're certainly affecting people's ability to better themselves.

Nobody's saying everyone has these bad attitudes, but it's enough people to influence the fact that their communities end up going nowhere instead of somewhere IMHO.

(April 28, 2015 at 9:25 pm)Dystopia Wrote: Bad Wolf does that anytime I disagree with him so I'm ignoring him in this topic.

Funny how the only person I consistantly accuse of misrpresenting my position is you, isn't it? Have you ever considered that it might be you that is in the wrong? Do you want a taste of what it's like to discuss anything with you? Well here we go:

Example 1:
Me: I enjoy watching mens football, more than womens football.

You: So you're saying women are rubbish at sport

Me: What....no. How did you even get there?

You: So you're saying women are rubbish at football

Me: No

You: So you're saying that women are worse at football than men

Me: No!!! I'm saying I prefer watching mens football. That's it.



Example 2:
Me: I'm more of a dog person

You: So you're saying you hate cats

Me: WTF? No


Do you want me to keep going? because I could. Or do you get the point?