(June 6, 2015 at 2:54 pm)Chad32 Wrote: There are people who can look at what Yahweh has supposedly done, and say they must be good because he did it. What reason is there to obey him, other than the fact that he's more powerful than us? Surely the fact that he's most powerful isn't by itsself a good reason to obey, especially given that he doesn't seem to have our best interests at heart.

My idea of justice comes from my life experiences, the people around me, and so forth. One of the simplest forms of justice is asking yourself if you would mind if something happened to you. If you offend me, is it ok if I set you on fire? Probably not. I set my son on fire, then go to court and tell the judge that I gave the person a choice. Serve me, or I will kill them. He disobeyed me, so I killed him. I brought him into this world, and I took him out. What court would hear that, and let me go free?

Apparently a theocratic court, given the honor killings that go on in some places. Those are often the places where equal rights is not a thing, for some reason.

God is the originator of justice, good and love. These systems are all present in every human culture  and there is no time in history when these systems came into being. You should serve and honor God because, among many things, it is what you were made to do.
 
You attempt to judge the actions of God on your finite human understanding. Do you understand all things? Do you know everything? You have already stated that your judgment is imperfect.
 
God will judge all of us with His infinite knowledge. God opposes the proud because they show contempt for His good and pure judgment. All who reject God here on earth will go to hell because they took the life He gave them for His glory and used it on their own selfishness. They allowed themselves to be corrupted by sin and when a way was given to them, through the blood of Christ, to repent they suppressed the truth. They used His gifts for debased things and their own sinful imaginations. They harm themselves and others with their sin. They choose a life without Him so for their reward they will receive eternity without Him.

(June 7, 2015 at 4:50 am)robvalue Wrote: I think that's spot on

Yeah. Whatever way he speaks to me would be good enough. Other people speaking, and claiming to carry messages from him, is not good enough. Crummy old books full of garbage are not good enough. If he gave me this brain, he should expect me to use it.

He knows where to find me, if he can get down from his lofty perch and come play in the mud.

Next time you talk to him, tell him to come see me properly, send me a message I can't misinterpret. He should be capable of that, no? Otherwise my ability to deny things is greater than God. Wow, I'm pretty powerful in that case.

So far all I have is hot air from people all claiming to hold his message, who can't even agree on what the message is. So no thanks.

(June 7, 2015 at 8:43 am)robvalue Wrote: I got a question though.

If you were born in a Muslim country, then much more likely than not you'd be a Muslim instead of a Christian, telling me a completely different set of "truths".

Now how can that be? How the can the truth depend on where you are born? Why does god tell people different things in different countries? This sounds much more like there are several gods to me, with limited ranges of influence. If it's all the same God and just misunderstandings, why is God letting people kill each other over it instead of sorting it out? He sounds kind of a dick.

Also, I'm thinking of a four figure number. Please ask God to tell you what it is. If he does, I'll be impressed.

He did come down to us and walked in the mud with us. He suffered with us and for us. He experience everything we experienced and died for us. He made a way but you don't want that way so you choose to say that He isn't speaking to you. You have already stated that you could be wrong . Yet you sit in judgment of God and think that you faulty thinking will save you.
 
Truth is the truth no matter where you live. There are those who live in a Muslim country with a Muslim family and have become Christians. There are people in my country, that pretends to be a Christian country, and think that since their mommy and daddy are Christian that will save them. The way to God is narrow and it is by the grace of God that any are saved. We are all given truth about God and we will all be held accountable for the truth we have been given.

(June 8, 2015 at 6:22 pm)Rekeisha Wrote: He did come down to us and walked in the mud with us. He suffered with us and for us. He experience everything we experienced and died for us.

Your sig states, you believe in the trinity, so you can continue your sermon from here on to eternity without anyone even being remotely impressed.

But from a believer in the trinity, there's the obvious and mandatory question to be asked: There's god, there's the holy spirit and there's Jesus. They're all one spirit and so they are all god with all the powers god is attributed with. So Jesus can't die by definition, since it's in the job description of an omnipotent, eternal being that it can't perish. And since we can establish, again going by the idea of the trinity, that he pulled his dying trick for a sin, he, in his other persona, has created, it's even more ludicrous. And nevermind the fact that he was talking to himself when pleading to take this cup away from him.

So we can also establish that you're simply talking out of your ass, simply assembling a string of kitchen theology you grew up with.

Color me unimpressed.

LOL...Rekeisha..no one thinks faulty thinking will save them...if that's the idea you got into your head, regarding why people wouldn't believe your fairy tales....you're just flat out wrong.  I think you need to be reminded that there's nothing to be saved -from-.

I've been given no truths, it's possible that you're speaking out of your ass, don't you think? If I ever get any of those phantom truths, then what? What's supposed to happen? Clouds open up, angels and trumpets..that sort of shit? Why would I be accountable to anything or anyone on the basis of recieving those "truths"..if and when I ever do get any? I don't think you've thought this through at all.

(June 8, 2015 at 6:22 pm)Rekeisha Wrote:

(June 6, 2015 at 2:54 pm)Chad32 Wrote: There are people who can look at what Yahweh has supposedly done, and say they must be good because he did it. What reason is there to obey him, other than the fact that he's more powerful than us? Surely the fact that he's most powerful isn't by itsself a good reason to obey, especially given that he doesn't seem to have our best interests at heart.

My idea of justice comes from my life experiences, the people around me, and so forth. One of the simplest forms of justice is asking yourself if you would mind if something happened to you. If you offend me, is it ok if I set you on fire? Probably not. I set my son on fire, then go to court and tell the judge that I gave the person a choice. Serve me, or I will kill them. He disobeyed me, so I killed him. I brought him into this world, and I took him out. What court would hear that, and let me go free?

Apparently a theocratic court, given the honor killings that go on in some places. Those are often the places where equal rights is not a thing, for some reason.

God is the originator of justice, good and love. These systems are all present in every human culture  and there is no time in history when these systems came into being. You should serve and honor God because, among many things, it is what you were made to do.
 
You attempt to judge the actions of God on your finite human understanding. Do you understand all things? Do you know everything? You have already stated that your judgment is imperfect.
 
God will judge all of us with His infinite knowledge. God opposes the proud because they show contempt for His good and pure judgment. All who reject God here on earth will go to hell because they took the life He gave them for His glory and used it on their own selfishness. They allowed themselves to be corrupted by sin and when a way was given to them, through the blood of Christ, to repent they suppressed the truth. They used His gifts for debased things and their own sinful imaginations. They harm themselves and others with their sin. They choose a life without Him so for their reward they will receive eternity without Him.

If goodness, justice, and love come from god, instead of being outside of him, then it's as subjective as anyone else's opinion of it, and I just happen to disagree with it.

We all judge everything with our finite human understanding. For some reason you have somehow made a decision, with your finite human understanding, that he is good despite his actions. With the same level of understanding I have determined he is evil because of his actions. You want to give him the benefit of the doubt, and expect me to do the same.

I don't care if he made a way out of a bad situation that he created. That doesn't make it ok for hell to exist, if it's the "lake of fire" type hell that some people believe in. If it's the "separation from god" type hell, I'd be happy to give that a shot for a while. Not that I'd want to exist anywhere for eternity, mind you. Eventually I'd do everything that anyone could ever think of doing countless times, and be ready for cessation of existence.

I think fundamentalist religion has harmed society much more than secular societies ever have. I'd rather live in Sweden than Saudi Arabia.

(May 27, 2015 at 11:21 pm)Lek Wrote: So Bill Maher is your authority for showing that most of the evil in the world is done by followers of Yahweh?

We have to dumb it down for people like you.

(June 8, 2015 at 6:22 pm)Rekeisha Wrote: He did come down to us and walked in the mud with us. He suffered with us and for us. He experience everything we experienced and died for us. He made a way but you don't want that way so you choose to say that He isn't speaking to you. You have already stated that you could be wrong . Yet you sit in judgment of God and think that you faulty thinking will save you.

(bold mine)

Do you want to try not to tell people what they think, know, or believe?  It's rude, presumptuous, and dishonest.

Rekeisha: all you are doing is firing off claim after claim, providing no evidence for any of it. You just talk like everything you say is true and I should just instantly believe it without question, because you say so. It makes it impossible to have any sort of continued discussion. I wouldn't expect you to just believe everything I say without question.

The bible is not evidence. The bible is the claim. Anyone can write stuff down, it doesn't make it true.

You would like to think if you were born in a Muslim country that you'd somehow refuse all the indoctrination and join a religion you were told from birth was false, based in a whole other country. This is just wishful thinking, and statistically, for every 100 people who think this, over 90 would be wrong. Some Muslims become Christians, some Christians become Muslims. So what? The overwhelming majority do not change religions, they stick with the one they are born into.

How are we doing on that four digit number? Does God know what I'm thinking, or not? Here's a chance to demonstrate everything you are saying actually has some weight behind it.

Thou shalt not test god, for he doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

There is a part of the bible that says ask and ye shall have. for what kind of father gives a child a stone, when he asks for bread? Except this doesn't happen, so they had to put in something about not testing god. Don't pray for good things to happen to you. Pray to have his plan for you revealed, whatever that might be.

(June 9, 2015 at 9:10 am)Chad32 Wrote: Pray to have his plan for you revealed, whatever that might be.

Well, whatever would have happened anyway.

Pretty much. Pray to whatever you want, and you'll get the same answer. It's not like anyone hears an audible voice. They just interpret events to mean whatever they think it should mean, and act accordingly. More often than not, it will probably line up with whatever they were thinking of doing anyway.