Quote:Christ only sacrificed Himself for us He did not sacrifice Himself to anyone.

You really MUST bone up on what a sacrifice is.

It can be an offering to a God, sure; or destruction or surrender of something for someone else. Check your websters my friend it's something FOR not TO. Perhaps that would put this to rest.

(October 4, 2010 at 10:15 pm)Godschild Wrote: God takes that situation and judges that person by the life they lead, now what all He considers I'm not sure. I do trust that it will be completely fair.

You mean the bible doesn't have an answer?

Gee, what a surprise.........

So why aren't ALL people judged on the life they lead, regardless of their beliefs.

It appears to me that humanity has higher ideals than yo-yo(sorry, I meant yahweh).

(October 5, 2010 at 1:15 am)Godschild Wrote: Christ did not sacrifice Himself to us, He sacrificed Himself for us. Man you sure get confused easily.

OK, one more time.

When you make a sacrifice to appease a god's wrath and atone for your sins or the sins of your village, whether this sacrifice is an animal, a human or goods, this is a sacrifice TO a god. Even though the beneficiary of the sacrifice is the village, it's still a sacrifice TO a god, not for us mortals. This is because the sacrifice was necessary to appease the wrath of the god and convince that god to forgive us for our sins. It's not about the benefit. It's about the convincing part.

This is why the Bible says in the OT whenever a sacrifice was made to Yahweh to atone for sins, that the sacrifice was TO Yahweh. Jesus was the penultimate sacrifice to atone for sins. He was sacrificed TO Yahweh. Even though we (theoretically) benefit, the sacrifice is still TO a god.

Clear?

Quote:God takes that situation and judges that person by the life they lead, now what all He considers I'm not sure. I do trust that it will be completely fair.

Icesage's question as to what the Bible says is a good one but I'm going to be generous and allow you a pass on that if you can answer this dilemma:

If Yahweh will allow people salvation if they hadn't heard about Jesus, then why spread the Gospel message as Jesus commanded? The worst thing you could do is tell people this tall tale. They're far less likely to believe it now than after they die and an angel tells them.

If Yahweh condemns people if they hadn't heard about Jesus , than you need to abandon any notions "that it will be completely fair". It obviously won't be.

Christ's sacrifice was for humanity; through His sacrifice and actions, He sent a message to humanity of God's love and devotion. He was setting an example by which to live so as to bring oneself closer to God's grace and love. Those who learned from that sacrifice were who the sacrifice was for; those who did not learn from the sacrifice were unaccepting of God in the first place, and remained(or remain to this day) that way. The sacrifice was not to appease God's wrath towards sin; it was to relieve people of their sin, via learning from the sacrifice and message, so that they would not condemn themselves to a life seperated from God.

It was an act of love and tolerance, is that so hard to understand?

(October 5, 2010 at 9:40 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: Jesus was the penultimate sacrifice to atone for sins. He was sacrificed TO Yahweh. Even though we (theoretically) benefit, the sacrifice is still TO a god.

Jesus wasn't the penultimate sacrifice, he was the ultimate sacrifice. Jesus couldn't be sacrificed to Yahweh, because Jesus is Yahweh. That would be illogical. Jesus was God sacrificing himself for us. On our behalf. It wasn't humans doing the sacrifice this time, but God. Only 'not God' could sacrifice anything to God.

(October 5, 2010 at 11:57 am)fr0d0 Wrote:

(October 5, 2010 at 9:40 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: Jesus was the penultimate sacrifice to atone for sins. He was sacrificed TO Yahweh. Even though we (theoretically) benefit, the sacrifice is still TO a god.

Jesus wasn't the penultimate sacrifice, he was the ultimate sacrifice. Jesus couldn't be sacrificed to Yahweh, because Jesus is Yahweh. That would be illogical. Jesus was God sacrificing himself for us. On our behalf. It wasn't humans doing the sacrifice this time, but God. Only 'not God' could sacrifice anything to God.

You do realise that makes no sense dont you?

So jesus was sacrificing himself for us because...............?

Jesus sacrificing himself for 'us' to make amends for 'sins' that the fucktard ajudicates himself seems like the most pointless and stupid way to achieve anything, honestly can you think of a worse one?

It was not an act of love but an act of desparation by some crap story tellers trying to find an end to their rather trite story.

It makes perfect sense and is the pinnacle of religious endeavour DBP.

Presuming to speak for other religions as well, are we?

No, only the ones who, like him, are totally unbiased and aren't ignorant of anything at all...

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(October 4, 2010 at 10:15 pm)Godschild Wrote: God takes that situation and judges that person by the life they lead, now what all He considers I'm not sure. I do trust that it will be completely fair.

Is failing to accept Jesus grounds for being condemned to hell or not?