(July 6, 2015 at 6:49 am)pool Wrote:

(July 6, 2015 at 6:45 am)Mr.wizard Wrote: You lack a belief that, I lack a belief in a god, in a world where the concept of god doesn't exist? Lol you have no idea what your even talking about, and for the millionth time atheism still makes no claims.

Yes,i understand atheism is not making any claims but is simply rejecting the claim proposed by theists.
In the scenario presented by you there are no longer theism which would mean that theists are no longer making a claim.
So you're just sitting there rejecting a claim that isn't even made.
That makes you the one making the claim.

Making what claim????????????????????????? Atheism is a lack of belief in god, if there is no theism, I still lack a belief in god, no claim made whatsoever.

Lacking a belief in god is not equal to claiming god doesn't exist. I think this is the point Mr. Wizard is trying to make.

(July 6, 2015 at 6:14 am)pool Wrote: HUGE RESPECT to you too for actually grasping the idea i presented,being open-minded and generally being an affirmation to me that not all atheists are alike.

Most of us immediately understood the idea you presented, it just happened to be demonstrably wrong.

(July 6, 2015 at 6:53 am)Mr.wizard Wrote:

(July 6, 2015 at 6:49 am)pool Wrote: Yes,i understand atheism is not making any claims but is simply rejecting the claim proposed by theists.
In the scenario presented by you there are no longer theism which would mean that theists are no longer making a claim.
So you're just sitting there rejecting a claim that isn't even made.
That makes you the one making the claim.

Making what claim????????????????????????? Atheism is a lack of belief in god, if there is no theism, I still lack a belief in god, no claim made whatsoever.

If i explained what claim you'd be making then i'd be stuck in an infinite loop  

You can't reject a claim that isn't made.

You have two options:
1*Either dissolve.(most logical)
2*Stay and fight.(least logical)

If you stay and fight then you have the burden of proof.If you ask me - i don't even know how you're going to do it(that's for you to figure out) *derp* lolz
Either way,the logical option to choose would be option number 1.
So dissolve.
Or try to understand atheism is as illogical as theism and that the existence of atheism is based on moral reasons rather than logical reasons.

(I've provided you with enough information to figure things out for yourself,i can't do anything more.)

(July 6, 2015 at 7:04 am)pool Wrote:

(July 6, 2015 at 6:53 am)Mr.wizard Wrote: Making what claim????????????????????????? Atheism is a lack of belief in god, if there is no theism, I still lack a belief in god, no claim made whatsoever.

If i explained what claim you'd be making then i'd be stuck in an infinite loop  

You can't reject a claim that isn't made.

You have two options:
1*Either dissolve.(most logical)
2*Stay and fight.(least logical)

If you stay and fight then you have the burden of proof.If you ask me - i don't even know how you're going to do it *derp* lolz
Either way,the logical option to choose would be option number 1.
So dissolve.
Or try to understand atheism is as illogical as theism and that the existence of atheism is based on moral reasons rather than logical reasons.

(I've provided you with enough information to figure things out for yourself,i can't do anything more.)

What the fuck are you talking about??????? You have provided no information, you clearly do not understand what atheism is and you clearly do not understand the terms logical or illogical. I don't have to reject a claim that isn't made, If a concept doesn't exist then I have no belief in that concept. How can I stop not believing in a concept that doesn't exist? The only way to do that is to believe in this concept and thus theism is born.

(July 6, 2015 at 7:19 am)Mr.wizard Wrote:

(July 6, 2015 at 7:04 am)pool Wrote: If i explained what claim you'd be making then i'd be stuck in an infinite loop  

You can't reject a claim that isn't made.

You have two options:
1*Either dissolve.(most logical)
2*Stay and fight.(least logical)

If you stay and fight then you have the burden of proof.If you ask me - i don't even know how you're going to do it *derp* lolz
Either way,the logical option to choose would be option number 1.
So dissolve.
Or try to understand atheism is as illogical as theism and that the existence of atheism is based on moral reasons rather than logical reasons.

(I've provided you with enough information to figure things out for yourself,i can't do anything more.)

What the fuck are you talking about??????? You have provided no information, you clearly do not understand what atheism is and you clearly do not understand the terms logical or illogical. I don't have to reject a claim that isn't made, If a concept doesn't exist then I have no belief in that concept. How can I stop not believing in a concept that doesn't exist? The only way to do that is to believe in this concept and thus theism is born.

Are you telling me if you were born as a child and grew up right up until now without hearing the word "God" then you'd be a person that has no belief in "God"?
That automatically assumes you have an understanding of "God",which you don't,even now,because "God",cannot be described consistently even with books like bible.

No,you wouldn't be a person that has no belief in God,you'd be unaware of the subject to have any beliefs or lack of beliefs to begin with.

Edit: (For you to understand more clearly)
Raise a child without him ever hearing the word "God".
Ask him one day if he has any belief in the existence or non-existence of god.
He'd be like "Whhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?"
He'd not be like "Yes,absoluetly." or "No".

So to answer your question even if theism ceased to exist everyone would be an atheist: No.Everyone would not be an atheist everyone would be a poolist following poolism.
Do you know what poolism is ? Its the lack of belief in theism and atheism. hehehe

(July 6, 2015 at 6:49 am)pool Wrote:

(July 6, 2015 at 6:45 am)Mr.wizard Wrote: You lack a belief that, I lack a belief in a god, in a world where the concept of god doesn't exist? Lol you have no idea what your even talking about, and for the millionth time atheism still makes no claims.

Yes,i understand atheism is not making any claims but is simply rejecting the claim proposed by theists.
In the scenario presented by you there is no longer theism which would mean that theists are no longer making a claim.
So you're just sitting there rejecting a claim that isn't even made.
That makes you the one making the claim.

What a weird idea.  Why do you assume people would be so invested in carrying around that rejection in the absence of religion and its practitioners?  

You also seem to think this "rejection" is something momentous.  It isn't except in those instances where people had to give up a lot in order get away from a religion they no longer had any use for.  This shouldn't be any more surprising than it is for warfare.  When people return to normal civilian life with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder it isn't because of a failure of logic.  For children raised in oppressively strict religious households, losing your religion can be like that.

My life story:

1977: Born.

1982 or thereabouts: I find out some people talk to things that appear to be imaginary, but they think they are real. I think this is silly.

Present: I still think this is silly.

(July 6, 2015 at 7:25 am)pool Wrote:

(July 6, 2015 at 7:19 am)Mr.wizard Wrote: What the fuck are you talking about??????? You have provided no information, you clearly do not understand what atheism is and you clearly do not understand the terms logical or illogical. I don't have to reject a claim that isn't made, If a concept doesn't exist then I have no belief in that concept. How can I stop not believing in a concept that doesn't exist? The only way to do that is to believe in this concept and thus theism is born.

Are you telling me if you were born as a child and grew up right up until now without hearing the word "God" then you'd be a person that has no belief in "God"?
That automatically assumes you have an understanding of "God",which you don't,even now,because "God",cannot be described consistently even with books like bible.

No,you wouldn't be a person that has no belief in God,you'd be unaware of the subject to have any beliefs or lack of beliefs to begin with.

Edit: (For you to understand more clearly)
Raise a child without him ever hearing the word "God".
Ask him one day if he has any belief in the existence or non-existence of god.
He'd be like "Whhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?"
He'd not be like "Yes,absoluetly." or "No".

So to answer your question even if theism ceased to exist everyone would be an atheist: No.Everyone would not be an atheist everyone would be a poolist following poolism.
Do you know what poolism is ? Its the lack of belief in theism and atheism. hehehe

Let me make this simple for you, If you never heard of god, would you believe in a god? I cant hold a belief in a concept that hasn't been presented to me, so automatically I lack a belief.

(July 6, 2015 at 7:39 am)Mr.wizard Wrote:

(July 6, 2015 at 7:25 am)pool Wrote: Are you telling me if you were born as a child and grew up right up until now without hearing the word "God" then you'd be a person that has no belief in "God"?
That automatically assumes you have an understanding of "God",which you don't,even now,because "God",cannot be described consistently even with books like bible.

No,you wouldn't be a person that has no belief in God,you'd be unaware of the subject to have any beliefs or lack of beliefs to begin with.

Edit: (For you to understand more clearly)
Raise a child without him ever hearing the word "God".
Ask him one day if he has any belief in the existence or non-existence of god.
He'd be like "Whhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?"
He'd not be like "Yes,absoluetly." or "No".

So to answer your question even if theism ceased to exist everyone would be an atheist: No.Everyone would not be an atheist everyone would be a poolist following poolism.
Do you know what poolism is ? Its the lack of belief in theism and atheism. hehehe

Let me make this simple for you, If you never heard of god, would you believe in a god? No you have no belief in a concept that doesn't exist.

What you did was basically say the same thing i said to you in a different way.

EDIT: Omg! i just saw the bolded portion!
To counter your logic,refer to this quote:

Quote:Are you telling me if you were born as a child and grew up right up until now without hearing the word "God" then you'd be a person that has no belief in "God"?
That automatically assumes you have an understanding of "God",which you don't,even now,because "God",cannot be described consistently even with books like bible.

No,you wouldn't be a person that has no belief in God,you'd be unaware of the subject to have any beliefs or lack of beliefs to begin with.

Edit: (For you to understand more clearly)
Raise a child without him ever hearing the word "God".
Ask him one day if he has any belief in the existence or non-existence of god.
He'd be like "Whhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?"
He'd not be like "Yes,absoluetly." or "No".

So to answer your question even if theism ceased to exist everyone would be an atheist: No.Everyone would not be an atheist everyone would be a poolist following poolism.Because theism introduced the concept of "God".If theism didn't exist "God" didn't exist - you can't have a lack of belief in something which is nothing.
Do you know what poolism is ? Its the lack of belief in theism and atheism. hehehe

I added the bolded part to the quote.