(July 14, 2015 at 8:42 am)Drich Wrote:

(July 13, 2015 at 2:55 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Or 2 Peter 3:8 for the same  idea in Holy Scripture.

When you quote scripture here it tends to shut the atheist down from 'thinking' and has them just parrot chiche'd arguments they know go with certain scripture. oh, look Cross gave a great example of this. That's why I try the Mr. Magi approach. I get them to wax on right hand wax off left hand/fruit fly, which tends to distract them long enough to learn a biblical precept like your passage in 2 peter, despite their best efforts to keep their minds walled off.

Once you open your mind and take in the bible you will realize it is all based on lies to control the masses of that time.

(July 14, 2015 at 10:00 am)dyresand Wrote:

(July 14, 2015 at 8:42 am)Drich Wrote: When you quote scripture here it tends to shut the atheist down from 'thinking' and has them just parrot chiche'd arguments they know go with certain scripture. oh, look Cross gave a great example of this. That's why I try the Mr. Magi approach. I get them to wax on right hand wax off left hand/fruit fly, which tends to distract them long enough to learn a biblical precept like your passage in 2 peter, despite their best efforts to keep their minds walled off.

Once you open your mind and take in the bible you will realize it is all based on lies to control the masses of that time.

You do know why the bible was translated into latin and bann by the church to be translated (Or even have any of it's passages allow to be spoken) into another language upon threat of being burned at the stake till the last few hundred years right?

Because the bible is not control. it is freedom from it. The Church wanted control so they took the bible away from the masses and made it so only a handful of people in a given region could read it, and even then those people where heavily indoctrinated to ignore what the bible actually said, and replaced it with what their leader said. This was the norm for 1000+ years.

It seems that everything you think you know about Christianity, the oppsite is true.

(July 14, 2015 at 10:14 am)Drich Wrote:

(July 14, 2015 at 10:00 am)dyresand Wrote: Once you open your mind and take in the bible you will realize it is all based on lies to control the masses of that time.

You do know why the bible was translated into latin and bann by the church to be translated (Or even have any of it's passages allow to be spoken) into another language upon threat of being burned at the stake till the last few hundred years right?

Because the bible is not control. it is freedom from it. The Church wanted control so they took the bible away from the masses and made it so only a handful of people in a given region could read it, and even then those people where heavily indoctrinated to ignore what the bible actually said, and replaced it with what their leader said. This was the norm for 1000+ years.

It seems that everything you think you know about Christianity, the oppsite is true.

The bible is the tool, the pastor/preacher is the one who uses it to enforce and ancient belief set.
Nowadays christianity is dying out and its a good thing thanks to bigotry in the church and plain ignorance
not being accepted by the masses.

(July 14, 2015 at 8:42 am)Drich Wrote:

(July 13, 2015 at 2:55 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Or 2 Peter 3:8 for the same  idea in Holy Scripture.

When you quote scripture here it tends to shut the atheist down from 'thinking' ..

Certainly true for me.  I don't speak bible and when I see a patch of it up ahead I generally look for a more promising route.

(July 14, 2015 at 8:42 am)Drich Wrote:

(July 13, 2015 at 2:55 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Or 2 Peter 3:8 for the same  idea in Holy Scripture.

When you quote scripture here it tends to shut the atheist down from 'thinking' and has them just parrot chiche'd arguments they know go with certain scripture. oh, look Cross gave a great example of this. That's why I try the Mr. Magi approach. I get them to wax on right hand wax off left hand/fruit fly, which tends to distract them long enough to learn a biblical precept like your passage in 2 peter, despite their best efforts to keep their minds walled off.

That's cute, Drich, but the point stands.  There came a point some decades after the crucifixion when the unfulfilled return became an embarrassment that had to be dealt with.  I doubt Jesus' immediate followers had in mind your brilliant fruit fly analogy.  They may have been dumb enough to think Jesus meant what he allegedly said.  Silly flies!  What's really funny is your contention that it's us who stop thinking when presented with such a verse, when in fact that verse has given you Christians an excuse to stop thinking about the truth or falseness of the prophecy for centuries.  Talk about parroted clichés!

(July 14, 2015 at 8:42 am)Drich Wrote:

(July 13, 2015 at 2:55 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Or 2 Peter 3:8 for the same  idea in Holy Scripture.

When you quote scripture here it tends to shut the atheist down from 'thinking' and has them just parrot chiche'd arguments they know go with certain scripture. oh, look Cross gave a great example of this. That's why I try the Mr. Magi approach. I get them to wax on right hand wax off left hand/fruit fly, which tends to distract them long enough to learn a biblical precept like your passage in 2 peter, despite their best efforts to keep their minds walled off.

I suppose you're right. I decided that if I was going to continue participating on AF, I would try to have a scriptural reference supporting everything I say. This will insure that I do not violate the intent of Proverbs 3:5 - "Lean not on your own understanding..."

(July 14, 2015 at 11:12 am)Crossless1 Wrote: There came a point some decades after the crucifixion when the unfulfilled return became an embarrassment that had to be dealt with.

What you need to understand is that many many prophecies refer to both immediate and future events. You also must remember that Jesus, the Prophets, and Apostles explicitly used parable and allegory (Mark 13:14 "let him that readeth understand.."). Mark 13 and parallels like Matthew 24 refer to both the end times and to the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D. i.e. "the abomination of desolation" contained in Daniel 7. So you are completely wrong. That is the part of the prophecy was actually fulfilled "within this generation". You're just referring to the wrong part of the prophecy.

(July 14, 2015 at 12:20 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:

(July 14, 2015 at 11:12 am)Crossless1 Wrote: There came a point some decades after the crucifixion when the unfulfilled return became an embarrassment that had to be dealt with.

What you need to understand is that many many prophecies refer to both immediate and future events. You also must remember that Jesus, the Prophets, and Apostles explicitly used parable and allegory (Mark 13:14 "let him that readeth understand.."). Mark 13 and parallels like Matthew 24 refer to both the end times and to the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D. i.e. "the abomination of desolation" contained in Daniel 7. So you are completely wrong. That is the part of the prophecy was actually fulfilled "within this generation". You're just referring to the wrong part of the prophecy.

Well, I wasn't referring to Mark 13 or Matthew 24, but thanks for the unnecessary remedial lesson in the use of parable and allegory.  Since you brought up those chapters, I'm curious to know when you date the likely composition of Mark.

(July 14, 2015 at 11:52 am)ChadWooters Wrote:

(July 14, 2015 at 8:42 am)Drich Wrote: When you quote scripture here it tends to shut the atheist down from 'thinking' and has them just parrot chiche'd arguments they know go with certain scripture. oh, look Cross gave a great example of this. That's why I try the Mr. Magi approach. I get them to wax on right hand wax off left hand/fruit fly, which tends to distract them long enough to learn a biblical precept like your passage in 2 peter, despite their best efforts to keep their minds walled off.

I suppose you're right. I decided that if I was going to continue participating on AF, I would try to have a scriptural reference supporting everything I say. This will insure that I do not violate the intent of Proverbs 3:5 - "Lean not on your own understanding...

That is the same goal I have. Speak where the bible speaks remain silent where the bible is silent. If I do speak where the bible is silent I make it known. Otherwise at any point I can provide scriptural support for what I have said... Even if in this format I don't share it unless asked.

(July 14, 2015 at 11:12 am)Crossless1 Wrote:

(July 14, 2015 at 8:42 am)Drich Wrote: When you quote scripture here it tends to shut the atheist down from 'thinking' and has them just parrot chiche'd arguments they know go with certain scripture. oh, look Cross gave a great example of this. That's why I try the Mr. Magi approach. I get them to wax on right hand wax off left hand/fruit fly, which tends to distract them long enough to learn a biblical precept like your passage in 2 peter, despite their best efforts to keep their minds walled off.

That's cute, Drich, but the point stands.  There came a point some decades after the crucifixion when the unfulfilled return became an embarrassment that had to be dealt with.  I doubt Jesus' immediate followers had in mind your brilliant fruit fly analogy.  They may have been dumb enough to think Jesus meant what he allegedly said.  Silly flies!  What's really funny is your contention that it's us who stop thinking when presented with such a verse, when in fact that verse has given you Christians an excuse to stop thinking about the truth or falseness of the prophecy for centuries.  Talk about parroted clichés!

Well, if you count The time spent with Paul He did return in very short order even by a fruit fly's standard.