DEBUNKING THE CONSPIRACY THEORY

[Randy Carson]

Anthony Flew was raised Methodist and converted to deism, not christianity (afaik).

Deism is not atheism.

"For much of his career Flew was known as a strong advocate of atheism, arguing that one should presuppose atheism until empirical evidence of a God surfaces. He also criticised the idea of life after death, the free will defence to the problem of evil, and the meaningfulness of the concept of God. In 2003 he was one of the signers of the Humanist Manifesto. However, in 2004 he stated an allegiance to deism, more specifically a belief in the Aristotelian God. He stated that in keeping his lifelong commitment to go where the evidence leads, he now believed in the existence of a god." [Source.]

[Randy Carson]

Yeah... Why didn't black people simply choose "black" universities, restaurants and drinking fountains, right?

Don't get me wrong...I totally get the civil rights aspect of this. My point was why deal with the hassle when the wedding is supposed to be a time of joy - not one of litigation.

[Longhorn]

Anthony Flew was raised Methodist and converted to deism, not christianity (afaik).

Deism is not atheism.

"For much of his career Flew was known as a strong advocate of atheism, arguing that one should presuppose atheism until empirical evidence of a God surfaces. He also criticised the idea of life after death, the free will defence to the problem of evil, and the meaningfulness of the concept of God. In 2003 he was one of the signers of the Humanist Manifesto. However, in 2004 he stated an allegiance to deism, more specifically a belief in the Aristotelian God. He stated that in keeping his lifelong commitment to go where the evidence leads, he now believed in the existence of a god." [Source.]

Um. Yeah. I'm kind of aware of that.

my point being, Rob was never religious to begin with. He wasn't raised believing in anything, contrary to Flew. And you said Rob would accept christianity, which even Flew didn't. So your example fails.

[robvalue]

Right. I wasn't "raised atheist" either, my parents never talked about God or religion with me as far as I can remember. I simply came to my own conclusions.

[Randy Carson]

Deism is not atheism.

"For much of his career Flew was known as a strong advocate of atheism, arguing that one should presuppose atheism until empirical evidence of a God surfaces. He also criticised the idea of life after death, the free will defence to the problem of evil, and the meaningfulness of the concept of God. In 2003 he was one of the signers of the Humanist Manifesto. However, in 2004 he stated an allegiance to deism, more specifically a belief in the Aristotelian God. He stated that in keeping his lifelong commitment to go where the evidence leads, he now believed in the existence of a god." [Source.]

Um. Yeah. I'm kind of aware of that.

my point being, Rob was never religious to begin with. He wasn't raised believing in anything, contrary to Flew. And you said Rob would accept christianity, which even Flew didn't. So your example fails.

Get real.

I could name a few dozen other atheists who did become Christians...would those examples fail, also?

[Homeless Nutter]

Don't get me wrong...I totally get the civil rights aspect of this. My point was why deal with the hassle when the wedding is supposed to be a time of joy - not one of litigation.

That's very simple:

1. The issues surrounding gay marriage are unsurprisingly likely to be related to weddings.

2. Someone had to be the first. The sooner a legal precedent is created, after legislation has been amended - the sooner the reactionist nonsense will stop - or at least will be much easier to deal with swiftly. Smart people are aware of that, which is why they get sh*t done. Dumb people - angrily throw their toys out of the play pen and get spanked...

3. Sometimes people need to sacrifice their own happiness, comfort and even safety in order to fight for principles and better outlook for the future. Sounds familiar? Except for christians - that's just a platitude, or at best a reminder of long forgotten history. For people currently discriminated against - it's reality of life.

[abaris]

I could name a few dozen other atheists who did become Christians...would those examples fail, also?

So name them.

[Longhorn]

No. If you mentioned an atheist never raised religious I wouldn't have a problem with your example, and don't think for a minute that I'm outright denying these people's existence. I'm only taking issue with Flew, because he did not become a christian and was raised religious.

This is all part of my compulsive need to correct misconceptions. If I don't do it, I will lose sleep.

[Homeless Nutter]

I could name a few dozen other atheists who did become Christians...would those examples fail, also?

I could name billions - every christian, who was ever a baby. What's your point?

[Randy Carson]

Right. I wasn't "raised atheist" either, my parents never talked about God or religion with me as far as I can remember. I simply came to my own conclusions.

This is why I actually think you have a better chance at breaking out of this atheist mindset than most forum members, rob.

Your current views are not based upon an emotional rejection of something or someone you've known; your atheism is based upon ignorance, and that is more easily corrected.

You're asking some of the right questions, but you haven't actually decided to follow the evidence wherever it leads, yet...though you probably think that you have. But if you do get to that point, I think you may succeed in getting past your current presuppositions because you don't have the emotional baggage that others here are carrying.

Oh, and you're married and straight, so you don't have issues there to overcome.