Problems with Christian Church

[Randy Carson]

I see.

You asked in another thread, and I responded.

http://atheistforums.org/thread-35417-po...pid1027484

I asked that question along with four others in response to you taking the smug stance "Try me". If we are in a different thread now, it is only because you have carried this over accross threads. I will not click on your links, and you need to stop being a coward and print out your answer right hear, where the issue is addressed.

Weird.

You asked the questions in post #71 here: http://atheistforums.org/thread-35417-po...pid1027459

And I answered in that thread with posts #75, 76, 77 & 79. You even replied to some of those posts. My first response was:

I don't play whack-a-mole. We'll do these one at a time.

First, it was two strangers...not one.
Second, while they were thought to be men, the reader is let in on the secret that they were angels.
Third, Lot knew that the visitors were in danger if they slept in the city square, so he insisted they stay in his own home.
Fourth, when the men of the town came to rape them, Lot offered his own daughters instead.
Fifth, when the men of Sodom and Gomorrah rejected his offer, the angels took over, and you know the rest.

Any questions?

I have already responded at length concerning the story of Sodom and Gomorrah in several threads and posts...start here.

That last link takes you to this:

Genesis 19:1-9

19 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 “My lords,” he said, “please turn aside to your servant’s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning.”

“No,” they answered, “we will spend the night in the square.”

3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”

6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.”

9 “Get out of our way,” they replied. “This fellow came here as a foreigner, and now he wants to play the judge! We’ll treat you worse than them.” They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.

Q: Why did Lot insist that the visitors not spend the night in the square?
A: Because Lot knew the visitors would be raped.

Q: Why does the scripture say that "all the men...of Sodom" demand that Lot turn the visitors over to them?
A: Because the Sodomites wanted to have sex with them.

Q: Did the men of Sodom know that the visitors were actually angels from God and not men?
A: No, the Sodomites believed that they were men and that they would be able to rape them.

Q: How did the Sodomites react when Lot offered his own daughters instead of the visitors?
A: The Sodomites preferred sodomy to natural intercourse with women.

Bonus Question

Q: Why did God utterly destroy the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah?
A: Because He is righteous and holy and just. The sins of those cities cried out to heaven for punishment.

+++

So now we have the exact same questions in two different threads and my responses scattered across four...all because you can't follow a link to a post?

[Iroscato]

Congratulations! With that quotemining expedition, you have climbed the Mount Everest of stupid. I mean, that guy actually has, but in presenting this brainfart, you more or less take posession. So you're at least Tenzing assisting Hilary in climbing the mount stupid.

Ha, Ha, Ha! Americas institutions have been taken over by the radical secular left! That's rich. You really should take the stage with that one.          

Just for you, I break my rule of never using that smiley.

Does it ever occur to you that you are actually one of the least intellectually gifted members of this forum?

It should.

Oh dear...

[drfuzzy]

Then in that case, the Catholic church has a lot of explaining to do for all its depictions of so many white people with angel's wings. If they are truly invisible for being of no physical form, then there should be no depictions of them whatsoever.

Are you interested in artists' depictions or theological accuracy?

theological . . . accuracy???  Wait, what?  Why are any of us wasting our time arguing about fantasy art showing creatures that DON'T EXIST?  That's like . . . starting a war over what the "sparkle" description of the Twilight vampires looks like in real life.   

[NoFaith2Burn4]

I asked that question along with four others in response to you taking the smug stance "Try me". If we are in a different thread now, it is only because you have carried this over accross threads. I will not click on your links, and you need to stop being a coward and print out your answer right hear, where the issue is addressed.

Weird.

You asked the questions in post #71 here: http://atheistforums.org/thread-35417-po...pid1027459

And I answered in that thread with posts #75, 76, 77 & 79. You even replied to some of those posts. My first response was:

I don't play whack-a-mole. We'll do these one at a time.

First, it was two strangers...not one.
Second, while they were thought to be men, the reader is let in on the secret that they were angels.
Third, Lot knew that the visitors were in danger if they slept in the city square, so he insisted they stay in his own home.
Fourth, when the men of the town came to rape them, Lot offered his own daughters instead.
Fifth, when the men of Sodom and Gomorrah rejected his offer, the angels took over, and you know the rest.

Any questions?

I have already responded at length concerning the story of Sodom and Gomorrah in several threads and posts...start here.

That last link takes you to this:

Genesis 19:1-9

19 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 “My lords,” he said, “please turn aside to your servant’s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning.”

“No,” they answered, “we will spend the night in the square.”

3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”

6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.”

9 “Get out of our way,” they replied. “This fellow came here as a foreigner, and now he wants to play the judge! We’ll treat you worse than them.” They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.

Q: Why did Lot insist that the visitors not spend the night in the square?
A: Because Lot knew the visitors would be raped.

Q: Why does the scripture say that "all the men...of Sodom" demand that Lot turn the visitors over to them?
A: Because the Sodomites wanted to have sex with them.

Q: Did the men of Sodom know that the visitors were actually angels from God and not men?
A: No, the Sodomites believed that they were men and that they would be able to rape them.

Q: How did the Sodomites react when Lot offered his own daughters instead of the visitors?
A: The Sodomites preferred sodomy to natural intercourse with women.
1
Bonus Question

Q: Why did God utterly destroy the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah?
A: Because He is righteous and holy and just. The sins of those cities cried out to heaven for punishment.

+++

So now we have the exact same questions in two different threads and my responses scattered across four...all because you can't follow a link to a post?

I've never seen anyone deal so nonchalantly with the act of trading one's own daughter to a mob to be raped or beaten to death in exchange for the safety of a complete stanger, no matter what he called himself. If he really was an "angel" of any god worth giving up anything for, then he should have been able to take care of himself. You aren't just an absolute idiot, you are a psychopath too.



Fuck you, fuck your bible, and fuck your extremely hypocritical, merciless, book-burning, misanthropic, lying, utterly cruel, murderous, genocidal, child molesting, misogynistic, homophobic, absolutely obnoxious, shameless robber-baron church of shitheads!

[Whateverist]

1) Define church. There are about 40.000 different denominations. I Haven't got a problem with the church - see 2.

Great clarification. Church as used here is the people that make up the church. Let's narrow it a bit and specify an evangelical fundamentalist for the purpose of this question.

That won't work.  The only way I can take xtianity seriously at all is to think of practitioners who are not evangful excrementalists.  Trust me, 'god', such as it is, is not happy with you.

[Randy Carson]

I've never seen anyone deal so nonchalantly with the act of trading one's own daughter to a mob to be raped or beaten to death in exchange for the safety of a complete stanger, no matter what he called himself. If he really was an "angel" of any god worth giving up anything for, then he should have been able to take care of himself. You aren't just an absolute idiot, you are a psychopath too.

Um...yes, Lot chose to offer his own daughters to the mob rather than allow the strangers to be abused. Hospitality in Middle Eastern cultures places a great premium upon protection of guests who have entered your home. But the men of the town weren't interested in heterosexual sex...they wanted homosexual rape.

In fact, the angels (there were two not one) were capable of protecting themselves and Lot and his daughters, and the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by God.

Fuck you, fuck your bible, and fuck your extremely hypocritical, merciless, book-burning, misanthropic, lying, utterly cruel, murderous, genocidal, child molesting, misogynistic, homophobic, absolutely obnoxious, shameless robber-baron church of shitheads!

Okay, I'm gonna put you down as undecided for now.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

---

I asked that question along with four others in response to you taking the smug stance "Try me". If we are in a different thread now, it is only because you have carried this over accross threads. I will not click on your links, and you need to stop being a coward and print out your answer right hear, where the issue is addressed.

Weird.

You asked the questions in post #71 here: http://atheistforums.org/thread-35417-po...pid1027459

And I answered in that thread with posts #75, 76, 77 & 79. You even replied to some of those posts. My first response was:

I don't play whack-a-mole. We'll do these one at a time.

First, it was two strangers...not one.
Second, while they were thought to be men, the reader is let in on the secret that they were angels.
Third, Lot knew that the visitors were in danger if they slept in the city square, so he insisted they stay in his own home.
Fourth, when the men of the town came to rape them, Lot offered his own daughters instead.
Fifth, when the men of Sodom and Gomorrah rejected his offer, the angels took over, and you know the rest.

Any questions?

I have already responded at length concerning the story of Sodom and Gomorrah in several threads and posts...start here.

That last link takes you to this:

Genesis 19:1-9

19 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 “My lords,” he said, “please turn aside to your servant’s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning.”

“No,” they answered, “we will spend the night in the square.”

3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”

6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.”

9 “Get out of our way,” they replied. “This fellow came here as a foreigner, and now he wants to play the judge! We’ll treat you worse than them.” They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.

Q: Why did Lot insist that the visitors not spend the night in the square?
A: Because Lot knew the visitors would be raped.

Q: Why does the scripture say that "all the men...of Sodom" demand that Lot turn the visitors over to them?
A: Because the Sodomites wanted to have sex with them.

Q: Did the men of Sodom know that the visitors were actually angels from God and not men?
A: No, the Sodomites believed that they were men and that they would be able to rape them.

Q: How did the Sodomites react when Lot offered his own daughters instead of the visitors?
A: The Sodomites preferred sodomy to natural intercourse with women.

Bonus Question

Q: Why did God utterly destroy the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah?
A: Because He is righteous and holy and just. The sins of those cities cried out to heaven for punishment.

+++

---

So now we have the exact same questions in two different threads and my responses scattered across four...all because you can't follow a link to a post?

What kind of an asshole creep would offer up his daughters to be raped in order to save some unknown strangers?  Why didn't he offer the rapers his own ass?

[Homeless Nutter]

Um...yes, Lot chose to offer his own daughters to the mob rather than allow the strangers to be abused. Hospitality in Middle Eastern cultures places a great premium upon protection of guests who have entered your home. [...]

Yeah - and apparently protecting children from rape/harm is very low on the priority list. No wonder catholics happily send their children to be raped by priests until this day... Shameful.

If Lot was at all a decent man - and the mob actually demanded some hard-core man-on-man action - he would have bent over himself and taken one for the team. But he didn't - because he was a coward. Of course - the whole story and the characters in it were made up by barbarian sickos, just like the rest of the bible, so it says more about them as well as the closeted fools that follow the damn book, than anything else.

[vorlon13]

---

Weird.

You asked the questions in post #71 here: http://atheistforums.org/thread-35417-po...pid1027459

And I answered in that thread with posts #75, 76, 77 & 79. You even replied to some of those posts. My first response was:


That last link takes you to this:


Q: Why did Lot insist that the visitors not spend the night in the square?
A: Because Lot knew the visitors would be raped.

Q: Why does the scripture say that "all the men...of Sodom" demand that Lot turn the visitors over to them?
A: Because the Sodomites wanted to have sex with them.

Q: Did the men of Sodom know that the visitors were actually angels from God and not men?
A: No, the Sodomites believed that they were men and that they would be able to rape them.

Q: How did the Sodomites react when Lot offered his own daughters instead of the visitors?
A: The Sodomites preferred sodomy to natural intercourse with women.

Bonus Question

Q: Why did God utterly destroy the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah?
A: Because He is righteous and holy and just. The sins of those cities cried out to heaven for punishment.

+++

---

What kind of an asshole creep would offer up his daughters to be raped in order to save some unknown strangers?  Why didn't he offer the rapers his own ass?

Works for me.

[robvalue]

God was sitting right outside the town after haggling with Lot about how many people he should save. Apparently it was too much to ask that he stop anyone getting raped at all, or protect his own damn angels. And I thought angels were meant to be powerful creatures. If a simple angry mob is a threat to them, they are rather pathetic.

I mentioned before, they must have bum holes too if the tale is meant to be about sodomy. Angels with bum holes. Why would they need those? Expressly for the purpose of accepting angry mob dicks?

The best way to interpret this story is that it's gibberish nonsense that didn't happen, like most of the OT. But the fact that Lot is portrayed as the hero shows what a screwed up sense of morality they had back then. It's scary that some people want us to regress back to that.