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RE: How Do We Respect Other People's Beliefs?
September 7, 2015 at 11:44 am
(This post was last modified: September 7, 2015 at 11:45 am by Brian37.)
I hate the word "respect", it is far too much used to say " know your place", and or " don't bruise my ego". I never use that word.
I say "value", and I value your human right to make any claim you want. I also value the right to criticize and blaspheme your claims. Humans deserve to claim what they want, but that does not make the claim true by proxy of utterance.
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RE: How Do We Respect Other People's Beliefs?
September 7, 2015 at 12:16 pm
Quote:Theists often complain that we don't respect their beliefs.
That's the one thing they get right!
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RE: How Do We Respect Other People's Beliefs?
September 7, 2015 at 12:33 pm
(September 7, 2015 at 11:00 am)Rhondazvous Wrote: Theists often complain that we don't respect their beliefs. I've found that they often want a lot more respect than they're willing to give. So let's explore this question. What does it mean to respect someone's beliefs and why should we?
I think it has something to do with acknowledging that other humans have lived a different life and, given those experiences, who can say with certainty they wouldn't reach the same conclusion? It is the benefit of the doubt and a recognition that we're not all simplistically the same. It is more about choosing the kind of world you want to live in. Do you want to live in a world in which you suspect most of the population are morons? Or would you rather live in a world where everyone is potentially a peer until proven otherwise?
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RE: How Do We Respect Other People's Beliefs?
September 7, 2015 at 12:45 pm
I don't think we need to respect the beliefs.
We need to respect the person, and their right to follow any belief or philosophy, as long as those beliefs do no harm to others.
Any attempt to force another person to change their belief is disrespect. It is a very clear statement of "I'm right, you're wrong;
I'm smart, you're stupid". As an atheist, I can fall into that trap as easily as a theist can.
That's why I'm here. I want to learn better responses to theist "attacks", and I want to learn how to keep my cool in the process.
"The family that prays together...is brainwashing their children."- Albert Einstein
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RE: How Do We Respect Other People's Beliefs?
September 7, 2015 at 12:46 pm
(September 7, 2015 at 11:04 am)abaris Wrote: Simple rule of thumb for me. If they don't pester me, I don't pester them. I don't go out, finding me some theists to rub my disbelief in their faces. But I expect the same courtesy in return. Hey, if they don't start nothing, there won't be nothing.
The god who allows children to be raped out of respect for the free will choice of the rapist, but punishes gay men for engaging in mutually consensual sex couldn't possibly be responsible for an intelligently designed universe.
I may defend your right to free speech, but i won't help you pass out flyers.
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.
--Voltaire
Nietzsche isn't dead. How do I know he lives? He lives in my mind.
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RE: How Do We Respect Other People's Beliefs?
September 7, 2015 at 12:48 pm
No. Beliefs do not either require or deserve the respect of other people. I do not respect the belief of someone if it is demonstrably incorrect or patently false. Neither do I respect a belief if it happens to be demonstrably true. If a belief requires respect in order to be considered, then it doesn't deserve to be, as the only beliefs worth consideration are those that have evidence. People deserve some respect, as in right to privacy or right to believe and be wrong, but the right to believe and be wrong does not extend to other people being forced to respect that belief as if it were equal or even potentially valid. There are still some few people who believe the world is flat, for shits sake. It is our right, nay our responsibility, to treat such ideas as the nonintellectual rubbish that they most certainly are.
I will respect someone enough not to force my beliefs on them, but if they believe something stupid, I do not have to respect their belief. I have the right, much as they do, to criticize the beliefs of others. When those beliefs effectively make the world more ignorant, or even spread harmful behavior, I have the right to tell them their belief is wrong and evil. In order for a belief to get respect, it need to be worthy of it, and theirs simply isn't.
I would more generally advocate that one only leave one entrance into their mind(reason), and keep the rest of it rather closed, as it is one hell of a lot easier to shovel shit in than it is to get it out.
If the evidence and reason for you to believe something isn't really any better than the reason you should believe some rural farmer from Arkansas got anally probed by interstellar visitors, then you probably shouldn't.
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RE: How Do We Respect Other People's Beliefs?
September 7, 2015 at 12:52 pm
Quote:We must respect the other fellow’s religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.
— H L Mencken
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RE: How Do We Respect Other People's Beliefs?
September 7, 2015 at 1:02 pm
(This post was last modified: September 7, 2015 at 1:10 pm by Pyrrho.)
As others have noted, there is a difference between respecting a belief and respecting a person's "right" to have a belief. I don't respect silly beliefs. That is because they are silly.
If some fool believes in leprechauns, I am not going to respect the belief. Nor will I respect the person's intelligence.
Some people, though, confuse a right to have a belief, with a right to not be mocked for having it. If you publicly declare some bit of nonsense, you have no right to not be publicly mocked for your stupid, idiotic belief.
That someone has a "right" to have a damn fool belief, does not mean that the person has a right to not be called a damn fool for having it.
Edited to add:
Many times, people bring up this crap about respecting beliefs when what they really want to do is interfere with free speech and people's right to point out the fact that idiotic beliefs are idiotic.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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RE: How Do We Respect Other People's Beliefs?
September 7, 2015 at 1:05 pm
How much respect does MCC get from evangelicals and fundies ?
Not fucking much, and even though I'm not MCC, their turn the other cheek attitude about it grates on my nerves.
The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it.
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RE: How Do We Respect Other People's Beliefs?
September 7, 2015 at 1:07 pm
(September 7, 2015 at 12:45 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: I don't think we need to respect the beliefs.
We need to respect the person, and their right to follow any belief or philosophy, as long as those beliefs do no harm to others.
Any attempt to force another person to change their belief is disrespect. It is a very clear statement of "I'm right, you're wrong;
I'm smart, you're stupid". As an atheist, I can fall into that trap as easily as a theist can.
That's why I'm here. I want to learn better responses to theist "attacks", and I want to learn how to keep my cool in the process.
Very well put!
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