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Question from my friend about existence of God
November 1, 2015 at 3:34 pm
Hi all I'm new to forums in general but I needed help looking for an answer to a question my friend posed on the existence of God.
His point is people/humans are selfish and don't think of others without a inspiration from a higher being.
I agreed somewhat and said "yes they are selfish but people help others all the time without inspiration from higher beings"
He responded with "Not anyone like ghandi, jesus, or cesar chavez, you can't find a person that gave up everything without the inspiration of a higher being."
I responded with "so your telling me there are no medical students that have gave up what they could have had to just help people in a third world country?"
To that he responded with "Not one that lives poorly and does his service"
I felt like I could find an example of this but I haven't had much luck because I would assume people like this don't want to be found anyway or known.
He says the guy that the Buddhist who burned himself alive doesn't count because "Buddhist's believe in something in more than human(the buddha) which falls into the category of higher being or higher influence or the teachings of higher beings."
Tl;dr friend doesn't believe someone can give up everything to help others without inspiration from a higher being or influence. Need an example. Can't think of one or find one.
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RE: Question from my friend about existence of God
November 1, 2015 at 3:43 pm
Your friend projects his own selfishness, shortsightedness, and yokelish outlook onto his betters.
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RE: Question from my friend about existence of God
November 1, 2015 at 3:46 pm
(This post was last modified: November 1, 2015 at 3:50 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Your friend the kind of guy who'd toss old ladies into the street if he stopped believing? Sounds like you need new friends. If every religious tradition, including atheist releigious traditions, count as "higher beings" or "higher teachings"...then the category is sufficiently wide to allow for -anything-. You could follow the "higher teachings" teachings of the "higher being" Doctor Suess. It's all the same. Doctor Suess, Jesus, Buddha, The Sunday Morning Paper....whatever.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Question from my friend about existence of God
November 1, 2015 at 3:51 pm
Most people are plenty nice, caring, and generous to others. To a certain extent. It doesn't always extend to strangers, but usually people within a certain circle of friends and family will get along fine. You can find a passage where Jesus says he came only for the jews, and likens other people to dogs. This aside from the idea that anyone who doesn't dedicate their life to jesus may end up in fiery torment that never ends. Jesus was a nice guy, some of the time, but I doubt Gandhi threatened to set people on fire.
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RE: Question from my friend about existence of God
November 1, 2015 at 3:53 pm
(This post was last modified: November 1, 2015 at 3:53 pm by djokica8.)
Parents dont need higher being to give everything to their child.
Conversation is stupid becouse everybody should think about themselfs and not give everything for others(you should help but you shouldnt give everything).
You dont even have to argue, just say that giving up everything for others is stupid.
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RE: Question from my friend about existence of God
November 1, 2015 at 4:30 pm
(November 1, 2015 at 3:34 pm)timbangu Wrote: Tl;dr friend doesn't believe someone can give up everything to help others without inspiration from a higher being or influence. Need an example. Can't think of one or find one.
Simple answer: Doctors without borders. They come in all shape and colors and willingly risk their lives without getting anything in return.
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RE: Question from my friend about existence of God
November 1, 2015 at 5:20 pm
Every atheist who volunteers.
Every atheist who joins the military.
Every atheist who just got done helping the old lady neighbor move a couple dozen heavy boxes to her minivan for no reason other than I saw her and she clearly needed help.
Your "friend" has a ridiculous, self-centered argument that shouldn't even merit a response. The fact that you feel you need to respond to such bigotry out of care for your friend and his opinions is, ironically, itself a disproof of his assertion.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
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RE: Question from my friend about existence of God
November 1, 2015 at 5:31 pm
(This post was last modified: November 1, 2015 at 5:33 pm by robvalue.)
Hello, welcome 
It's a stupid argument, because it's admitting to actually being completely selfish himself. If people are doing good things in order to impress some weird God thing, then they're doing it for their own benefit. It's a means to an end, and is pretty much an admission that otherwise they'd have no reason to do good things.
Now I don't believe it's actually true, most of the time. This is religious brainwashing in action. Loads of people have gone from that very mindset, to realising religion is bullshit, to finding out that actually they want to be a good person because it's the right thing to do.
Plenty of atheists do amazing, selfless things. Of course someone who has already concluded atheists aren't really capable of this is going to wave away all examples as not real.
On the whole, people care about other people because we have evolved as a cooperative species. People unwilling or unable to study the science of this instead call it magic. It's a common problem.
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RE: Question from my friend about existence of God
November 1, 2015 at 5:31 pm
(November 1, 2015 at 5:20 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: Every atheist who joins the military.
Up for debate. Not because of individual motivation, but because of what the ones in power have in mind.
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RE: Question from my friend about existence of God
November 1, 2015 at 5:45 pm
(This post was last modified: November 1, 2015 at 5:50 pm by Alex K.)
"Weeeell, fine, sure, there may be atheists who are pennyless medical students who aid the poor in Ebola stricken civil war countries, big deal, but do they eat nothing but uncooked stones and gouge their own eyes out out of pure selflessness like that one crazy ass saint? Ha, didn't think so! Atheists are selfish and evil after all. Go Jesus! go Jesus!
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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