If you were ever a theist...

[Brakeman]

.. one day I realized that if someone is happy in their faith, if on some level it brings them a sense of joy, even if I didn't believe in the origin of that joy, who was I to talk them out of it? If someone is harming others with their beliefs, that's a different story.

Let me tell you a true story from my past.

A Family that was very close to us growing up and whose dad and my dad were ordained in the same Second Baptist church of Maryville (Now defunct) during the sixties and seventies had a tragic ripping apart. They had a Daughter, Debbie, who was about a year and a half older than me and a son Danny who was maybe 1 and a half years younger than me. When we moved on to other churches in the eighties we saw them less but warmly met them on most holidays. Anyway in 1982, when Danny was sixteen, Debbie came out as gay to her religious parents. Because of the condemning uproar and dis-ownment, Danny who loved his sister so much, ran out into the yard and set himself afire with gasoline. He died so horribly that neighboring kids who witnessed it were quite scarred.

This boy I played with as a child died because christian teachings and christian parents who may also have felt a sense of joy, voiced christian condemnation against his beloved sister.  

I was at his funeral. Nothing was said about the reason he killed himself, only talk of lambs, jesus, and heaven. If someone like me now would have addressed the contradictions and moral problems with the bible with their parents before 1982, I might have a fantastic friend who I could call up and maybe our kids could have played together. Instead I have very distant friendship with a scarred Debbie who wanted nothing to do with her mom or her dead dad the last time I spoke with her, and only a gravestone for Danny.

I also have a first cousin who is gay and has AIDs and likely won't see much of 2016. I didn't know anything about his gayness or his disease, I didn't even know what had become of him. Only recently because of a dire turn for the worse was anyone in my family aware that anything was wrong other than they wouldn't talk to us much because they are Mormon. I couldn't and still can't be a friend and a shoulder for him because or the mormon church wall his family have built around him.

As for most of my extended family they are christians of various cherry picked states but I cannot be myself to any of them because of the extreme ostracizing I would receive for declaring myself an atheist on facebook or such. I must live in a closet and nod and attempt to change subjects on nearly every holiday get together and I must ignore their ridiculously stupid posts on facebook every day. But hey, whatever gives them joy right..

So I am sensitive to the idea that religion has a good side or is harmless. I know you don't want to get into any debate with me but do know that there are bad side effects for believing ancient false claims from the middle east. This isn't just about going along with cute Noah's ark children's books.

Thanks for letting me vent!


Last minute addendum,

Fuck god for saying My friend Debbie should be stoned to death because she is gay.
Fuck any christians that think sweet Eric is being godly punished with aids because he is gay.
Fuck god for saying my wife  should be stoned to death because she wasn't a virgin when we married.
Fuck god for saying it's good parenting to beat your kids with rods.
Fuck god for saying that my daughters are more unclean and are to be subservient to some man's sons.
Fuck god for the huge list of punishable condemnations that don't meet our moral standards anymore and were never really good or right when they were written. They were just an artifact of the bigotries and ignorance of goat herders from the bronze and iron ages.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Anyone speak gibberish?

Sorry, my bullshit-to-English translator is on the fritz right now.

[robvalue]

Deidre: Thanks for your reply about my worship question That's very interesting! I like what you have said, it sounds very positive.

[Red_Wind]

.. one day I realized that if someone is happy in their faith, if on some level it brings them a sense of joy, even if I didn't believe in the origin of that joy, who was I to talk them out of it? If someone is harming others with their beliefs, that's a different story.

Let me tell you a true story from my past.

A Family that was very close to us growing up and whose dad and my dad were ordained in the same Second Baptist church of Maryville (Now defunct) during the sixties and seventies had a tragic ripping apart. They had a Daughter, Debbie, who was about a year and a half older than me and a son Danny who was maybe 1 and a half years younger than me. When we moved on to other churches in the eighties we saw them less but warmly met them on most holidays. Anyway in 1982, when Danny was sixteen, Debbie came out as gay to her religious parents. Because of the condemning uproar and dis-ownment, Danny who loved his sister so much, ran out into the yard and set himself afire with gasoline. He died so horribly that neighboring kids who witnessed it were quite scarred.

This boy I played with as a child died because christian teachings and christian parents who may also have felt a sense of joy, voiced christian condemnation against his beloved sister.  

I was at his funeral. Nothing was said about the reason he killed himself, only talk of lambs, jesus, and heaven. If someone like me now would have addressed the contradictions and moral problems with the bible with their parents before 1982, I might have a fantastic friend who I could call up and maybe our kids could have played together. Instead I have very distant friendship with a scarred Debbie who wanted nothing to do with her mom or her dead dad the last time I spoke with her, and only a gravestone for Danny.

I also have a first cousin who is gay and has AIDs and likely won't see much of 2016. I didn't know anything about his gayness or his disease, I didn't even know what had become of him. Only recently because of a dire turn for the worse was anyone in my family aware that anything was wrong other than they wouldn't talk to us much because they are Mormon. I couldn't and still can't be a friend and a shoulder for him because or the mormon church wall his family have built around him.

As for most of my extended family they are christians of various cherry picked states but I cannot be myself to any of them because of the extreme ostracizing I would receive for declaring myself an atheist on facebook or such. I must live in a closet and nod and attempt to change subjects on nearly every holiday get together and I must ignore their ridiculously stupid posts on facebook every day. But hey, whatever gives them joy right..

So I am sensitive to the idea that religion has a good side or is harmless. I know you don't want to get into any debate with me but do know that there are bad side effects for believing ancient false claims from the middle east. This isn't just about going along with cute Noah's ark children's books.

Thanks for letting me vent!


Last minute addendum,

Fuck god for saying My friend Debbie should be stoned to death because she is gay.
Fuck any christians that think sweet Eric is being godly punished with aids because he is gay.
Fuck god for saying my wife  should be stoned to death because she wasn't a virgin when we married.
Fuck god for saying it's good parenting to beat your kids with rods.
Fuck god for saying that my daughters are more unclean and are to be subservient to some man's sons.
Fuck god for the huge list of punishable condemnations that don't meet our moral standards anymore and were never really good or right when they were written. They were just an artifact of the bigotries and ignorance of goat herders from the bronze and iron ages.

One of the reasons i had 2 Facebook accounts, one for family (who are mostly christian) and one friends that already identified me as atheist.Deleted both and broke of all contact, for some reason i felt and still feel that there is no reason to have online friends or family members that i will never visit.

[Pizza]

That's good because at the end of the day we can only follow how things appear to us at the moment. I hope you find the true you're looking for. I hope you don't fall into black and white Christianity trap. It's okay to be Cafeteria Christian, it's the only way Christians can live.

Actually, you know what? Fuck it. I hate this shit. I hate the lack of intellectual curiosity, lack of doubt, and double standards religious people display when something they don't understand and can't explain happends.

Fuck the very idea of a loving anthropomorphic deity that creates a world where 911 and 15 fucking wars of endless war happens. Do Christians even think about suffering, insanity, and human cruelty or is all carebear shit? The privileged little shits likely don't because insiders don't have to think about all the outsiders. Fuck it, fuck it. Fuck Christian privilege in America, fuck religious privilege, fuck it all. The main reason religionists in America aren't all violent is because of secularism and improved living conditions not because of Christian exceptionalism.

[GrandizerII]

All of a sudden, feeling very sad atm. I wish there was less judgement from both atheists and theists. Always seems like I'm the odd girl out...when I left Christianity, I was questioned by Christians, when I turned back...I'm questioned by atheists. Idk.

The reason why I questioned you earlier in the thread, is because, if you found a good reason to return to your theistic beliefs, I want to know about it. It wasn't to put you in a tough spot, it was to discover if your beliefs were rational and evidence based enough for me to also believe them.

As I previously stated, I am passionate about having as many true beliefs as possible, and as few false beliefs. If you have, what I would consider good reasons, as far as I can tell, you wouldn't need faith. 

My main reason to continue to participate in these discussions, is to determine if there is some belief that I don't currently hold, that I should.

I just wish someone could tell me why a god would want people to believe on bad evidence, despite all the good evidence to the contrary.

Agreed. Why be coy about it? Just give it a shot, guys, and see how it goes. If you really did experience something conclusively supernatural/godly (as in beyond just mere fascinating coincidence), some of us would like to hear about it, even if we won't be convinced.

[Excited Penguin]

Fuck, I wrote this wrong.

I meant to say I'm glad I'm not the only one around who's not a cafeteria atheist.

It was supposed to be witty like that.

[Pizza]

Fuck, I wrote this wrong.

I meant to say I'm glad I'm not the only one around who's not a cafeteria atheist.

It was supposed to be witty like that.

What's a cafeteria atheist? There are no atheist doctrines to pick and mix.

[Excited Penguin]

Religion is fucking psychotic and psychopathic. Yeah, you can't blame the people for all of it, and let's be honest about that, that's because it's almost all of them, you couldn't if you tried, but you sure as hell can blame them for falling for this bullshit. We all suffer for it and one day, hopefully, if we won't meet our end because of it, we'll look back with horror at how tolerated and even respected were these fucking barbaric ideas. Protecting religion is like protecting the fucking mafia, or the idea that jews should be killed, or like protecting the mentality that people are somehow different because of the degrees of crazy they are and they should kill each others for it, or fear and distrust each others, and protecting all of the other insane, dangerous bullshit that comes out of most of them which most of you are familiar with. It takes guts to admit it, but somebody has to. Sure, you have the right to be a fucking lunatic and adhere to a set of morals that are abhorrent and have no place in today's society, but don't make me shut up about it when I hear you talking about it. You deserve to be ridiculed and laughed out of the room for holding such idiotic beliefs, no matter who you are or what you do. If you're a Jain, I'll just feel sorry for you, but if you're say a Christian or a Muslim you'll have to take responsibility for the sick death cult you're in love with.

[Excited Penguin]

Fuck, I wrote this wrong.

I meant to say I'm glad I'm not the only one around who's not a cafeteria atheist.

It was supposed to be witty like that.

What's a cafeteria atheist? There are no atheist doctrines to pick and mix.

What part of it was a f joke you didn't get? The part that rings a little truth you'll have to get on your own.