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If you were ever a theist...
RE: If you were ever a theist...
(January 11, 2016 at 10:11 pm)*Deidre* Wrote: I know what the Bible says about it, but...Idk. I just never really concerned myself with it. There is a yin and yang in this lifetime, could there be a yin and yang in an afterlife? I do believe in an afterlife, and think that the Bible's rendition of it, might just be stories. People's ideas of what it might be. Jesus spoke of hell, but He wasn't as specific as other passages of the Bible, or even the OT's depiction of it. 

From what I understand, hell is primarily a New Testament doctrine. There isn't really much about it in the Old Testament. A lot of the theology of hell is extra-biblical, being sourced from documents and traditions that aren't canon.
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RE: If you were ever a theist...
The other thing about "what if I'm wrong" is that virtually everyone on the planet would be "wrong". First you have to pick the "right" religion, then the "right" sect within that religion, then the "right" personal interpretation (which is presumably important, or else religious people wouldn't disagree so much about all the details).

Unless God is handing out "close enough" free passes, the actual target is a dot on an infinitely sized dartboard. And if "close enough" doesn't involve just living your life in the best way that you can, then God is just an evil bitch, and we're all screwed anyway.

And, of course, the "right" answer might be a religion no one has even started yet. So everyone loses. Assuming God "must be" one of the cartoon characters currently portrayed is to ignore the infinite canvas of other things God could possibly be. No, there is no reason he is any of them. In fact the likelihood, until evidence is presented, is zero. "How could they be right?" is a better question than "What if I'm wrong".

And, of course, the idea that "God" only wants a couple of people to be "right", and does so by some scavenger hunt of ridiculous clues that look like fairy tales, is to assume God is actually a pathetic childish trickster who delights in justifying to himself his own desire to torture others.
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RE: If you were ever a theist...
(January 12, 2016 at 12:53 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:
(January 11, 2016 at 10:11 pm)*Deidre* Wrote: I know what the Bible says about it, but...Idk. I just never really concerned myself with it. There is a yin and yang in this lifetime, could there be a yin and yang in an afterlife? I do believe in an afterlife, and think that the Bible's rendition of it, might just be stories. People's ideas of what it might be. Jesus spoke of hell, but He wasn't as specific as other passages of the Bible, or even the OT's depiction of it. 

From what I understand, hell is primarily a New Testament doctrine.  There isn't really much about it in the Old Testament.  A lot of the theology of hell is extra-biblical, being sourced from documents and traditions that aren't canon.

A good portion of it comes from Dante and Milton.
The great appear great because we are on our knees. Let us rise!
Big James
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RE: If you were ever a theist...
(January 12, 2016 at 4:36 am)robvalue Wrote: The other thing about "what if I'm wrong" is that virtually everyone on the planet would be "wrong". First you have to pick the "right" religion, then the "right" sect within that religion, then the "right" personal interpretation (which is presumably important, or else religious people wouldn't disagree so much about all the details).

Unless God is handing out "close enough" free passes, the actual target is a dot on an infinitely sized dartboard. And if "close enough" doesn't involve just living your life in the best way that you can, then God is just an evil bitch, and we're all screwed anyway.

And, of course, the "right" answer might be a religion no one has even started yet. So everyone loses. Assuming God "must be" one of the cartoon characters currently portrayed is to ignore the infinite canvas of other things God could possibly be. No, there is no reason he is any of them. In fact the likelihood, until evidence is presented, is zero. "How could they be right?" is a better question than "What if I'm wrong".

And, of course, the idea that "God" only wants a couple of people to be "right", and does so by some scavenger hunt of ridiculous clues that look like fairy tales, is to assume God is actually a pathetic childish trickster who delights in justifying to himself his own desire to torture others.

Spot on, as always.
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RE: If you were ever a theist...
(January 12, 2016 at 12:53 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:
(January 11, 2016 at 10:11 pm)*Deidre* Wrote: I know what the Bible says about it, but...Idk. I just never really concerned myself with it. There is a yin and yang in this lifetime, could there be a yin and yang in an afterlife? I do believe in an afterlife, and think that the Bible's rendition of it, might just be stories. People's ideas of what it might be. Jesus spoke of hell, but He wasn't as specific as other passages of the Bible, or even the OT's depiction of it. 

From what I understand, hell is primarily a New Testament doctrine.  There isn't really much about it in the Old Testament.  A lot of the theology of hell is extra-biblical, being sourced from documents and traditions that aren't canon.

The New Testament wasn't written until after Paul and others had been immersed in Greek culture for years, with their own ideas to sell. Hell was invented after study of the Greek Hades and other nasty pagan myths, twisted up extra nasty with a "lake of fire" to make it a competitive terror.
Mr. Hanky loves you!
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RE: If you were ever a theist...
I turned from Christianity (or at least what I believed to be Christianity) when my youngest daughter (who was over 18 at the time) asked me a series of poignant questions:

"If the God of the bible exists, shouldn't his morality be timeless?  If his morality was timeless and corrupted by man, then shouldn't he have corrected those instructions?  How can you believe in a god who allows his followers to consider women as less, and say that women should not speak in church?"

It was a good point.  Why would I believe in a Misogynistic god?  As a woman, I can't.  Not without thinking that I am less, and fuck that.  I'm worth two of everyone else.  Three of some people, and forty billion of others.
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RE: If you were ever a theist...
Thanks so much MTL Smile I appreciate it Heart

I put a lot of air quotes in that post, just because religion handles words in ways which are so far removed from their general meaning.
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.

Index of useful threads and discussions
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RE: If you were ever a theist...
(January 12, 2016 at 12:53 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:
(January 11, 2016 at 10:11 pm)*Deidre* Wrote: I know what the Bible says about it, but...Idk. I just never really concerned myself with it. There is a yin and yang in this lifetime, could there be a yin and yang in an afterlife? I do believe in an afterlife, and think that the Bible's rendition of it, might just be stories. People's ideas of what it might be. Jesus spoke of hell, but He wasn't as specific as other passages of the Bible, or even the OT's depiction of it. 

From what I understand, hell is primarily a New Testament doctrine.  There isn't really much about it in the Old Testament.  A lot of the theology of hell is extra-biblical, being sourced from documents and traditions that aren't canon.

That makes sense. I was thinking of heaven, sorry. lol But, how about ''sheol'', the 'underworld' as it's known in Hebrew?
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