I called a friend who is a believer...

[MTL]

GC is doing more damage to the reputation of Christianity than any of us atheists could do.
I sometimes wonder if he's an undercover atheist. He's got some staying power if so, that's for sure.

one of those times I wish I could give more than a single 'thumbs-up'.

[MTL]

So now it's a choice, thought you just stopped. I made an observation and a comment, you and everyone else blew it all out of proportion, typical atheist behavior. Baby I've been here a number of years an have seen every excuse, whether you take me seriously of not is fine with me. By the way I didn't say fear took you away from your belief, in all honesty I have reservations you had a relationship with God.

GC

Yep, there it is, right on cue.  The "no true Scotsman" fallacy.  "You don't believe anymore?  Well then you never REALLY believed in the first place."
In one sentence, it 1) allows the responder to feel superior, that they have belief (and therefore, the love and special favor of an omnipotent sky-daddy) and you, poor deluded ignorant scum, do not, and 2) to immediately and quickly dismiss any hint of a possibility that there could be any logical reason for your statement of disbelief.  They are not even capable of considering that the brainwashing that they are still reinforcing within themselves could possibly be broken - rather easily - in anyone else, much less the possibility of that being a positive thing.

another one in need of a POWER THUMBS-UP

[MTL]

The typical atheist response, because a Christian can tell when someone is not genuine it just bothers atheist something terrible. I have a hard time understanding why it bothers you, you don't believe there is a God so by this admission I would have to be total correct in your book. I don't and never have felt superior to anyone else including, to be in a relationship with God one has to have a humble heart. I can promise you this you nor anyone else could ever cause me not to know God is real. Your impolite wording towards God and myself show your childish mind.

GC

Well, first, that sentence made utterly no sense.  And the "no true Scotman" fallacy is real.  You could not possibly tell whether OldBaby was ever a true believer, because you never met OldBaby in real life, and you never had any type of contact with him in his worship activities.  Therefore, you are making a false judgment about a person that you have never met, solely on the basis that they now say they no longer believe what YOU believe.  He was just saying that he is no longer a xtian.
 
Oh right.  A xtian can tell when someone is not genuine.  Right.  Tell that to my mother, who followed one preacher after another, only to have to move to the next church because the guy had been raping all of the middle-school girls or having affairs with three married women at one time.  Tell that to the people at the church where I work, who were taken in by a charming priest who is now in jail for child molestation.  Tell that to the elderly couples who have given their savings to a TV millionaire preacher who is laughing all the way to the bank.

No, GC, you can't tell.  And you don't know OldBaby, so your judgment of his belief or lack of belief is rude, completely false, and serves only one purpose: to stroke your own overblown ego and to protect your own delusions.

Dr. Fuzzy to GC:

[Godscreated]

---

I'm going to ignore your assumptions about my Christian life, because you simply don't know what you're talking about.  If there's something about my deconversion story that you find confusing or need more information about, I'm happy to explain.

Here's what I'd like to know from you, a true Christian, who will never be swayed from your relationship with God:

1. You say that initially we have to come to God in faith, then knowledge of his existence comes through a growing relationship.  Explain the initial process of coming to Christ in faith.  How does that work?  After 30+ years in Christianity, I still don't understand belief without a rational basis.  Is this initial belief a product of human will?  Is it initially activated by God himself?  Or are you suggesting that faith precedes belief?  So, in other words my initial belief is unimportant, but only that I throw myself at Christ's feet and begin following?  Then, belief comes over time?  Explain.

2. How does the "knowledge of his reality" work?  Is it completely an internal knowing or is it something that you can relate to others?  You say that you've had experiences that are undeniable.  I'm assuming you mean that you cannot deny to yourself the legitimacy of those experiences.  Are we talking about miracles?  Tell me about your most compelling experience with God that you cannot deny.  

3. Why does God make himself obscure to some of us?  Does God expect people to search for him using faculties other than those he equipped us with to interpret the material world?  If God doesn't seemingly feel it's important to reveal himself to everyone, why do his followers feel it's important to make his case to those who God hasn't revealed himself to.  Yes, I'm leaving myself wide open here to "I don't believe in atheists" or some derivative.  

---

Oh please.  With all of the books written, all of the analysis done, no contradictions in the scriptures??  Just what kind of freaking blinders would somebody have to be wearing to even say such a thing?

Here:  Bibvis    Bibviz.com.   673 Biblical contradictions, for a start, laid out nice and clean, with all sorts of informational links.

Those have been falsified, want to bring something new.

GC

[Godscreated]

So now it's a choice, thought you just stopped.

GC

You skipped a step, GC.


Old Baby did NOT make a choice to stop believing in God, per se.

He made a choice to be honest with himself.

...and it was THAT, in turn, which made belief in God impossible.

Twisting words changes nothing, he made choices that led to his nonbelief it's all part of the one and same process. 

GC

[dyresand]

You skipped a step, GC.


Old Baby did NOT make a choice to stop believing in God, per se.

He made a choice to be honest with himself.

...and it was THAT, in turn, which made belief in God impossible.

Twisting words changes nothing, he made choices that led to his nonbelief it's all part of the one and same process. 

GC

Belief in god is a choice atheism really isn't. You are born a atheist everyone is no one is born knowing about god(s). 
Atheism is a logical conclusion since you cannot prove there is or there isn't  a god. You were atheist at one point i was atheist before i learned about god everyone is.

[Old Baby]

You skipped a step, GC.


Old Baby did NOT make a choice to stop believing in God, per se.

He made a choice to be honest with himself.

...and it was THAT, in turn, which made belief in God impossible.

Twisting words changes nothing, he made choices that led to his nonbelief it's all part of the one and same process. 

GC

Wow, every post you make gets worse.

Since you know me so much better than I know myself, tell me what choices I made that led to my nonbelief.

[The Grand Nudger]

I'm left wondering the same.  When did I make this choice anyway, -as- I was passing through the birth canal...before, after? Seems like some high level shit for me to have been doing...and I'm pretty sure I was awfully preoccupied at the time.

[Godscreated]

---

 
I read your story and it wasn't detailed enough to actually understand why you left Christianity. From the first I thought I saw that your Christian faith was not real, why I can't truly say, like I said you gave no real details. I lost a girl long ago because I wasn't a Christian, then I tried to fake it but she saw through that and so it ended. I don't blame her she wanted a Christian man, it was her choice made by her own reasons and who was I to make her do something she didn't want. She stopped loving me for a reason.


If I were a troll I would have been run off many years, so that should answer that. Yes I said fear, fear of losing your friend and fear you made a wrong choice that caused you to lose this friend. 


You can be assured I have a genuine and very real relationship with God, I know with thought a doubt that God is real. The Bible teaches this, first we come to God through faith, then belief from our study of His word and then to the knowledge of His reality through a growing relationship. I've had experiences with God that are undeniable, you may not believe so but then that's your misfortune. Your friend knows God do you think she is delusional also?


Here's the truth, your friend and I both are enjoying a relationship with the God of the Bible because of what his Son did for us. We both would rather have friends that are Christians for a simple reason they help us to grow. I do have friends who are not Christians but my association with them is one of work related or other things, they are not the deep relationships that Christians have between each other that Christ provides us. No one to this very day has been able to show me that there are contradictions or untruths in the scriptures.

GC

---

I'm going to ignore your assumptions about my Christian life, because you simply don't know what you're talking about.  If there's something about my deconversion story that you find confusing or need more information about, I'm happy to explain.

I gave you some things to explain and you ignored them, you just said you stopped believing. No one stops anything with out making some decisions along the way and those choices are part of the choice for disbelief. By the way you didn't have a Christian life you were living a lie, a lie you concocted. When a Christian (one who knows Christ) tells me they have deconverted but know God exists then I believe them, they knew yet decided to leave the faith, read scripture this is there. 

Here's what I'd like to know from you, a true Christian, who will never be swayed from your relationship with God:

You're correct nothing could change what I believe. Now I believe I asked you to provide evidence for your disbelief before you asked these questions, I believe first things first, what ever you have to say wouldn't necessarily change my response to your questions. I would like for this to be a friendly conversation and hope you do. I'm finished answering the post of others because they are being hostile and I want let a gang butt into this conversation.

GC

[drfuzzy]

Oh please.  With all of the books written, all of the analysis done, no contradictions in the scriptures??  Just what kind of freaking blinders would somebody have to be wearing to even say such a thing?

Here:  Bibvis    Bibviz.com.   673 Biblical contradictions, for a start, laid out nice and clean, with all sorts of informational links.

Those have been falsified, want to bring something new.

GC

Exactly HOW has a database connecting hundreds of Bible verses been falsified?  All of the 673 basic comparisons, verse to verse?  Right.  I think that you simply have declared the whole site false, because in your mind there can't BE any contradictions. This means that it's utterly foolish for anyone here to waste any time trying to discuss anything with you.