God: The Great Tempter

[Lek]

Seems that way, but it's worked rather well over time.

How do you figure?

Thousands of Christian sects, many involved in wars throughout history. All over competing interpretations of  texts supposedly provided by a god, that should have known of a better method to transmit his message.

The majority of humanity is not currently, and have not been Christian throughout history. Again, shouldn't this deity have been able to figure out a better method of transmitting his message? A method that would have been able to convince almost everyone on the planet?

I know I could have come up with a better method, and you could have too.

So instead, according to many Christian sects, we have a system, where the vast majority of all humanity that has ever existed, is going to be punished for eternity (or annihilated, according to others) , all because this deity had a poor method of communicating. 

Is that your idea of "working out rather well"? 

I guess since you have discovered the "truth", it has worked out rather well, for you. Not so much for those of us (the vast majority of humanity) that are destined for eternal punishment. 

Any being that created this system, does not deserve to be worshiped, even if it does actually exist.

It's been extremely successful, having started with a small band of ragtag disciples and has been growing ever since. It's the largest faith in the world and is still growing. God doesn't require that we all interpret the bible the same, but that we have faith in his son.

[Lek]

So you don't agree with way God does things.  If God is God, he has better insight than we do.  We don't believe in a God who thinks at our level, but rather is superior to us.  Otherwise, as you would say, "What's the use?"

So why make an analogy as if he acts like a human?

I didn't act as if he is human. I said he has better insight than we do. As a non-human entity, he can have better insight than us.

[abaris]

Why do you say that he doesn't act out of love or justice?  Taking our punishment in our place is not love , and allowing us to suffer for our wrongs is not justice?

Oh, please!

Jesus is god, according to your own trinity. So he just sacrificed a hull. Been there, discussed that as nauseam.

Secondly, as I already said. God is supposed to be omniscient. So what's the point in tempting, if the outcome is already a known quantity? Just as the Jesus suffering, this only looks good if you don't scratch the surface. But the first question asked inevitable exposes the rust underneath.

[Rhondazvous]

I guess some of them can't see it because they see "his actions" as a prescription for morality in the first place. So he could do anything and they'd say it was righteous and just and so on.

And of course, they then can't see why that is a terrible system.

I try to remember back to when I was a Christian. I guess the horror never really dawned on me. When we're surrounded by people who believe something, it becomes a part of our homeostasis. We can't go against that without a major cognitive dissonance, so we never ask the pertinent questions. the church programs our minds to guard against such questions. They are locked away in a room marked DANGER.

[abaris]

I try to remember back to when I was a Christian.  I guess the horror never really dawned on me.

Oh, the priests made very sure that we didn't like god when we were kids. Telling us that if we sin, god would take what's dearest to us, did the job just fine. But being a kid, I didn't reflect on the trinity and so I made a distinction between God and Jesus. I still liked him, just loathed the father.

[Rhondazvous]

https://youtu.be/VWAUhadJzTk    Please watch this Lek.

It's an indication of what Jesus went through for us, but we can't really know all that he went through.  I think we'll all be in heaven eventually, but some will be there long before others.

To tempt fate or god or man means to create a situation where they want to do something they otherwise might not do. Your efforts to make a difference between tempting god and tempting man are convoluted. Try splitting electrons.

[FebruaryOfReason]

Here's God setting a trap for Uzza.

1 Chronicles 13
9: When they came to the threshing floor of Kidon, Uzzah reached out his hand to steady the ark, because the oxen stumbled
10: The LORD's anger burned against Uzzah, and he struck him down because he had put his hand on the ark. So he died there before God

What a fucking scumbag. Kills a bloke for trying to stop the Ark falling on the floor.

What should Uzza have done here? Let the ark fall to the floor and smash, so that God could kill him for allowing it to fall to the floor?

God seems sometimes like one of those medieval Kings who would viciously maltreat their servants, and all their courtiers were obliged to laugh along at the abuse as if it was some sort of joke.

[Lek]

I try to remember back to when I was a Christian.  I guess the horror never really dawned on me.

Oh, the priests made very sure that we didn't like god when we were kids. Telling us that if we sin, god would take what's dearest to us, did the job just fine. But being a kid, I didn't reflect on the trinity and so I made a distinction between God and Jesus. I still liked him, just loathed the father.

Sounds like you had a traumatic childhood Rhondazvous. Actually, having been raised catholic myself and attending eight years of catholic school I can sympathize somewhat with you, even though you're exaggerating greatly. When I was in catholic school, we pretty much did the same things other kids did. I didn't notice any of the kids talking suicide or anything like that.

[Lek]

Here's God setting a trap for Uzza.

1 Chronicles 13
9: When they came to the threshing floor of Kidon, Uzzah reached out his hand to steady the ark, because the oxen stumbled
10:  The LORD's anger burned against Uzzah, and he struck him down because he had put his hand on the ark. So he died there before God

What a fucking scumbag. Kills a bloke for trying to stop the Ark falling on the floor.

What should Uzza have done here? Let the ark fall to the floor and smash, so that God could kill him for allowing it to fall to the floor?

God seems sometimes like one of those medieval Kings who would viciously maltreat their servants, and all their courtiers were obliged to laugh along at the abuse as if it was some sort of joke.

God would have been OK with him letting it fall. He told them not to touch the ark. You're right God was definitely an authoritarian toward the Jewish people. They still ignored him for vast periods of time during the old testament.

[Rhondazvous]

It can be noble, and an actual sacrifice, for a human to give their life to save others. This is because it may be the only way of doing so in a particular situation; the only price that can be paid.

But we're always bombarded with tales of how powerful God is and how he can do anything. That means he can do it any way he wants, too. So if his "plan" involves a human sacrifice, that is what he chose. It wasn't the only price.

This is why analogies with humans always fail. The fact that some theists are so ready to draw parallels though indicate what category they really put God in.

So you don't agree with way God does things.  If God is God, he has better insight than we do.  We don't believe in a God who thinks at our level, but rather is superior to us.  Otherwise, as you would say, "What's the use?"

You have unwittingly driven rob's point home.

If god's way is superior to our way then it must have been the only way. If he could have done it another way, then he chose the most horrid way, not because it's superior but just to show us that he doesn't give a fuck. If he could not have done it another way, then he is not all powerful. Will you theists ever tire of painting yourselves into this same tired old corner?