Islam in Europe: perception and reality

[abaris]

What do you mean “start?” the Quran says any Muslim who does not participate in a declared jihad will be counted among the infidels.

One of the most common mistakes, Rhonda. Look up the definition of Jihad. It's not war. War can, under certain circumstances, be a part of it. But it's not the goal or the definition. But at iit's core, it simply means effort. To strenghten faith and to proselitize. There's also a rule in place that says, in case of war: Do not kill any child, any woman, or any elder or sick person. That's a rule supposedly set up by Mohammed himself.

There's also this.

“Whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as though he had killed all of mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind.” (Qur’an 5:32).

Unsurprisingly very similar to jewish tradition.

There's also this by an ancient islamic scholar.

Do not kill the monks in monasteries, and do not kill those sitting in places of worship. (Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal)

Or this.

Do not wish for an encounter with the enemy; pray to God to grant you security; but when you [are forced to] encounter them, exercise patience.” (Sahih Muslim)

Of course, radicals don't observe any of this. But it's still at the core of islamic teachings.

[Rhondazvous]

One of the most common mistakes, Rhonda. Look up the definition of Jihad. It's not war. War can, under certain circumstances, be a part of it. But it's not the goal or the definition. But at iit's core, it simply means effort. To strenghten faith and to proselitize. There's also a rule in place that says, in case of war: Do not kill any child, any woman, or any elder or sick person. That's a rule supposedly set up by Mohammed himself.

There's also this.

“Whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as though he had killed all of mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind.” (Qur’an 5:32).

Unsurprisingly very similar to jewish tradition.

There's also this by an ancient islamic scholar.

Do not kill the monks in monasteries, and do not kill those sitting in places of worship. (Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal)

Or this.

Do not wish for an encounter with the enemy; pray to God to grant you security; but when you [are forced to] encounter them, exercise patience.” (Sahih Muslim)

Of course, radicals don't observe any of this. But it's still at the core of islamic teachings.

Like Christians, Muslims are both acquitted and condemned by the same book, depending on which verses they choose to pick.  And that, I think, depends on the society in which they live. Western society has nothing to fear from Muslims in their midst. I’m just glad atheism doesn’t have a holy book.

But vigilantism is not limited to religion. Trump is over here right now warning us about the encroaching illegal immigrant. Anger and hatred is like a shot gun. You can aim a shot gun but you can’t really control where the pellets go. First hate the Muslims. Then hate anybody who looks like a Muslim. Then hate anybody who doesn’t hate Muslims.

[Heat]

Deaths due to terrorism in Europe, 2015: 150.
http://www.datagraver.com/case/people-ki...-1970-2015

Deaths due to traffic accidents in Europe, 2015: 84,589
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co...death_rate

Terrorism only works if we are terrified.
It's clearly working on some people.
Those people need to fucking grow a pair.

This, this, 1000% this.

[Drich]

Care to enlighten us on the bible passages, you love to quote so much, Drippy? They are fucking commands also, isn't it? At least for you they are, as you're4 not tiring to say. Do you go out to do all the things written there, if something happens, your god considers an abomination?

Btw, what exactly is your experience with Europe in any shape, way or form, that makes you an authority to judge? I mean, other than having met a few Greek businessmen confirming your notion that Greeks are slackers.

Maybe you could help me here, because I have no idea what you are talking about. Because otherwise know we are instructed that if a person does not welcome a discussion of God we are to simply move on.

[Drich]

Oh, I see has fallen off the wagon and resumed his abuse of the lolsmiley.

roflol smiley thank you very much. He only comes out when one of you says something so... "Funny" I would be "immoral" not to use it.

[Drich]

What a surprise that a textual fundamentalist Christian would read the Koran like a textual fundamentalist Muslim might, ignoring that there are other ways to approach religious literature. Just as there are Christians who don't approach the Bible with Drich's preconceived ideas about how it is to be read and interpreted, so there are Muslims who don't fit neatly into his caricature of what Muslims are or should be. I assume he'd apply the No True Scotsman argument to Muslims who are more liberal in their reading of the Koran than others are with the same arrogant lack of hesitation he brings to the table when discussing other Christians.

How are you guys so ignorant, are you all supposed to be 'thinkers?' do you all really believe all religion works like how post-reformation Christianity works?
Maybe google something before you speak one time out of 10. At least then you'll have a chance of being right one time out of ten!

In islam rather Sunni Islam their are no "other" interpretations! there are a hand full of Imams and they set the 'interpretation' for that whole sect of Islam Which again represents 90% of 1.6 billion people who are in that faith.

These men are supposedly prophet level and can not be questioned. If you do not follow their teaching you are removed from the sect and can be stoned.

Again it is like where the christian church was in the dark ages, where other sects where hunted down and destroyed! What do you think ISIS is and is trying to do?

This holds true for 90% of islam, so who cares what the non violent 10% thinks? They are not the ones waging jihad.

are you guys really so blinded by your left wing insanity to think that 90% (1,440,000,000) people who condone the Jihad of those in their sect, would not also flip the jihad switch on if they too were so called to do so?

We are not just talking about fighting age men, but every man woman and child according to what a Sunni Muslim believes.

That is why the media is so very careful to brand all Islam the same. So they can speak as you do. (not everyone thinks the same, not all muslims wage jihad, etc...) No technically not all wage jihad, just 90% think jihad is a calling that they may be under going or someday may have to under go.

So, When I speak for the sunni Muslim and provide sunni text or a sunni link I am speaking for ALL Sunni (90%) of Muslims world wide. (baring those who are intentionally lying/Taqiya to stem off persecution)

[Mister Agenda]

... he said, ignoring the fact that cherry-pickers are present in all religions.

This is about a majority in many places, though.  When the majority picks cherries....that's a lot of fucking cherries.

The alternative to cherry-picking is much worse.

[Mister Agenda]

It's not about taking comfort. It's about not broadbrushing the whole group when the majority of the victims actually come from that particular group.

Is it broadbushing to point out that every Muslim reveres a murderous lunatic (as Muhammad clearly was) and a particularly xenophobic and misogynistic text, and that the Islamic doctrines of jihad and martyrdom pose a unique problem at this moment in history, when the aforementioned charlatan and his writings seem to inspire terrorist attacks on the daily?

Yet sixty ago the same countries that are producing terrorists now were vacation spots and hot movie locations. The same religion was dominant then. Do you think they all started suddenly reading the Koran more? Or did the West treating their countries like their own private oil-producing sandbox have something to do with it?

You know...you KNOW...that if a foreign power occupied the USA or killed a tenth as many USAians on purpose as the USA has killed Muslims as 'collateral damage' that as a country we would collectively lose our fucking minds. We would go all Red Dawn on their asses and consider ourselves heroes for it. Yet when the people we've treated as pawns start fighting back, we look for anything to blame but our own actions.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Oh, I see has fallen off the wagon and resumed his abuse of the lolsmiley.

roflol smiley thank you very much. He only comes out when one of you says something so... "Funny" I would be "immoral" not to use it.

<singing softly> I wish I were like you / easily amused ...

What you find funny says a lot more about you than you might realize.

[robvalue]

Can you imagine how a public debate would go?

Speaker 1: This is my opening statement.........

MC: Now over to you Drich for your opening statement.

Drich: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAAAAAAHAHA