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RE: 9-year old girl hearing voices of the Devil.
July 18, 2016 at 12:07 pm
(July 18, 2016 at 10:01 am)The Viking Wrote: (July 18, 2016 at 9:01 am)Drich Wrote: Again, 'smart, open minded people' of Atheist forums... I am not addressing what is being believed or dismissed.. (I am not speaking to the validity of content) I am speaking to the closed minded what you approach a subject matter. No one of offered any proof that the girls condition was limited by the diagnosed cause.. None of you sought out what it was the 'devil' was saying..
What if the 9 year old could recite what the devil said in Latin in real time? What if she through Satan accurately predict the next 6 terror attacks???
The point is not the validity of this particular situation but the way you all approach a story like this with a "the world is flat and man will never fly attitude."
All I am suggesting is you do a little digging before you dismiss anything out right.
I know that there are 1000 crap stories likes this, but out of that 1000 there maybe one legit occourance.. The point being the devil can often be found in the details.. If one were to simply look.
But those situations aren't logically plausible. So hypothesis of such situations is rather obtuse. But I can see where you're coming from a little more now.
At the time, human flight, sailing around the world, nor was a solar system logically plausible, till it was... Till someone was willing to look beyond popular belief, and critically examine their given situation and was willing to explore what was beyond conventional logic at the time...
Again, there are two types of people. Those who hold to convention/lemmings and those who seek to challenge it. Those who challenge convention are the true thinkers, the innovators.
Bottom line is either your a sheep to convention or your a thinker... What I am simply pointing out is which side of the sheep pen you are standing on.
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RE: 9-year old girl hearing voices of the Devil.
July 18, 2016 at 12:35 pm
There are two types of people in the world... those who embrace false dichotomy and those who do not.
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RE: 9-year old girl hearing voices of the Devil.
July 18, 2016 at 12:57 pm
Anyone else struck by Drich insisting it's not about the validity of what the little girl is hearing by giving hypotheticals that strike at the very heart of the validity of what she may be hearing? Pretty funny.
But yeah, there's an incredibly remote possibility that the Christian pantheon is real, and that Satan has picked this random girl to screw with. However, there's a far, far, far greater possibility that she's suffering from mental illness and its symptoms are exacerbated by Christian imagery. Given that a little girl's life is, you know, actually at stake, the prudent course of action is to treat her for mental illness and not wait for metaphysical confirmation of anything due to a misguided "what if you're wrong?"
I think it's also important to note that not everyone who thinks outside the box is a genius. Most are, in fact, crackpots. Innovation doesn't come from simply going against the grain, but in demonstrating that you're right. So, yeah, the validity of situations like these are, indeed, the heart of the matter. The question really isn't "what if you're (the mainstream) wrong?" but, rather, "why do you (the outlier) think you're right?" It's that way with everything - new claims must meet the burden of proof. And when the claims go against previously held knowledge that has demonstrated its usefulness and (perhaps incomplete) truthfulness, then yes, the burden is quite heavy.
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RE: 9-year old girl hearing voices of the Devil.
July 18, 2016 at 2:31 pm
One of my nieces is coming home from institutional psychiatric care today. She was committed due to experiencing 'command hallucinations'. Her parents lean to the right and lean fundamentalist...but they didn't jump to demon possession as their go-to explanation for their child's problems. They sought professional medical help, got drugs for her that eliminated the hallucinations (until recently, she's still a teenager and her meds will have to be adjusted periodically). I had no input on this except for giving what advice I knew to give when asked, I'm just the uncle. Their beliefs are their business. But I'm glad they didn't make their child's situation all about their religion.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: 9-year old girl hearing voices of the Devil.
July 18, 2016 at 3:10 pm
(This post was last modified: July 18, 2016 at 3:11 pm by Simon Moon.)
(July 17, 2016 at 10:31 am)Drich Wrote: What makes you (all poopers) Think that you all would not have been in the crowd that mocked Columbus, demand Galileo's death, told the wright bros they should stick to fixing bikes???
Because those things can be supported by evidence. A girl claiming that a supernatural being is telling her to commit suicide is not.
Quote:Look at HOW you dismiss what I said... You take what is known and understood about the world and like every group i mentioned wrongly assumed that Humanity has complete mastery and understanding of the subject being discussed... (which they did till those men changed the world around them.. But you like the rest equip with nothing else you make proclamations concerning thing you can not understand. declare the world to be 'flat.'
No one is claiming that humanity has complete mastery and understanding of any subject. Just that we do know, all the evidence always points to mental illness in cases like these.
Quote:Now honestly ask yourself if you are not willing to consider anything you do not already accept, how will you ever grow? How is this considered to be an 'open mind?'
Open minded is not the same as gullibility.
I am very open minded, to anything that can be supported by demonstrable and falsifiable evidence, and sound and valid logic.
Are you willing to consider a Muslim's claim that they are hearing the voice of Iblis telling them to kill himself/herself as actually being Iblis? You want to grow, right?
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: 9-year old girl hearing voices of the Devil.
July 18, 2016 at 3:12 pm
Of course not, open minded means believe my bullshit without question.
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RE: 9-year old girl hearing voices of the Devil.
July 18, 2016 at 4:06 pm
(July 18, 2016 at 3:12 pm)robvalue Wrote: Of course not, open minded means believe my bullshit without question.
Which is exactly what every theist thinks about their religion.
Disclaimer: I am only responsible for what I say, not what you choose to understand.
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RE: 9-year old girl hearing voices of the Devil.
July 18, 2016 at 4:55 pm
(July 18, 2016 at 12:35 pm)mediocrates Wrote: There are two types of people in the world... those who embrace false dichotomy and those who do not.
Black and white thinking through binary opposition is the bread an butter of the unimaginative.
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RE: 9-year old girl hearing voices of the Devil.
July 18, 2016 at 5:32 pm
Only a Sith deals in absolutes!
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: 9-year old girl hearing voices of the Devil.
July 18, 2016 at 5:35 pm
(July 18, 2016 at 12:07 pm)Drich Wrote: (July 18, 2016 at 10:01 am)The Viking Wrote: But those situations aren't logically plausible. So hypothesis of such situations is rather obtuse. But I can see where you're coming from a little more now.
At the time, human flight, sailing around the world, nor was a solar system logically plausible, till it was... Till someone was willing to look beyond popular belief, and critically examine their given situation and was willing to explore what was beyond conventional logic at the time...
Again, there are two types of people. Those who hold to convention/lemmings and those who seek to challenge it. Those who challenge convention are the true thinkers, the innovators.
Bottom line is either your a sheep to convention or your a thinker... What I am simply pointing out is which side of the sheep pen you are standing on.
And, after all, JC is the gate to the penfold isn't he?
Hmm?
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