The problem with prayer.

[Angrboda]

The evidence is obviously something you want to hear, something that bloats your ego even more, rather than something that could be empirically tested by others 

  Yes all evidence is what I want to hear even when it's not what I expect. No it doesn't bloat my ego, it does how ever cause me to feel very good that God would share the knowledge with me as He promised. Christians do not need to go through a process of testing the knowledge God gives us we know for certain it's validity.

GC

Step 1: assume it's from God
Step 2: assume that it's valid
Step 3: Prophet

[LadyForCamus]

The power of... irrational thought.

I've had an experience lately which gives me a little bit of insight into what religious beliefs might be like. I had an irrational belief, which kept going for quite a long time. Months. I knew it was irrational, yet it was powerful. It gave me hope. It felt like a way out of the depressing mess that is my life. It felt like a "cure". Emotionally, I believed it, even though logically I did not. It's too personal to discuss openly.

I felt the strain of cognitive dissonance. I can't give myself over to fantasy, no matter how strong the emotion, so I was struggling to reconcile this with reality. Part of me didn't want to give up this belief.

But eventually I did. I finally came to terms with the fact that it was a ridiculous, fanciful and unrealistic belief. It was a relief. But it also felt rather sad. I'd lost the hope I had. Even though I know it was false hope, and I even knew it at the time, it still felt sad to lose it. I got a small inkling of how firmly religious people must cling to their beliefs, no matter what the logical part of their brain is telling them. The dissonance was killing me; I can't imagine what trying to reconcile religious beliefs with reality must be like.

I'm settling down. I choose reality. Irrational false hope is not much different to constantly getting drunk or taking drugs. It's not any kind of permanent solution, and it's irresponsible to let such things affect decision making for yourself and others.

I have experienced something similar. It wasn't a desirable fantasy like you had, but it definitely speaks to the power of the mind. My family took a vacation to Disney when I was about 13 years old. I was very mentally/emotionally unstable at the time, which I think was the result of puberty onset combined with a significant history of depression/anxiety in all the women on my mom's side of the family.

Anyway, while in Florida I experienced a paranoid delusion. I suspected my mom and grandfather of plotting to kill me. I'm not sure what triggered it; I think maybe leaving our home state for the first time, flying for the first time, and just being in a completely foreign place in general left me feeling vulnerable, and it just happened.

This is where is cognitive dissonance comes in. I completely rationally understood that my family was not plotting to kill me. I KNEW the thoughts were insane and false, but I couldn't stop thinking it. I couldn't stop feeling it. I remember being in the back seat of the car listening to them talk to each other. Even though I could clearly hear every word they were saying, I felt sure they were talking about throwing me out of the vehicle to my death. The emotions were overpowering. They overpowered my rational thought in the sense that it completely ruined my vacation. I cried in the hotel bathroom every day. The feelings of dread, abandonment and fear did not lessen with my consciously acknowledging that they were completely based in delusion. It was a truly awful experience, and deeply disturbing to have felt two completely contradictory beliefs at the same time. I KNOW my family isn't trying to kill me, but I just KNOW that they are.

Unlike your experience, I was happy when mine passed on its own (and thankfully have never had another one), but I think it goes to show how forceful human emotion can be. All these people who think they "feel god's love"...without some tangible, reality-based anchor to ground yourself, how could you ever possibly make the distinction between God and the complex workings of the human brain?

[robvalue]

Thanks for sharing that, I'm very sorry for what you went through

It is truly scary what the mind can do to itself.

[Godscreated]

  No it's the book that God showed me is true.

GC

Why does god pick and choose who he shows the truth to? I've heard nothing from him by no fault of my own, yet I'm going to burn.

 You have to come to Christ as savior and lord before God will reveal the deeper meaning of scripture. God will move the hearts of those who seriously seek the salvation He offers.

GC

[robvalue]

You have to believe before you can believe.

At that point, whether your beliefs are true is irrelevant.

[Godscreated]

---

You're correct the knowledge wasn't required, through God's grace He gave me what He promised He would. Faith is required to obtain the knowledge.


First off we are not indoctrinated, and second we do not consider it evidence for belief. God promises this knowledge to those who accept Christ through faith as their savior. Faith+Promise= Knowledge.


  Yes all evidence is what I want to hear even when it's not what I expect. No it doesn't bloat my ego, it does how ever cause me to feel very good that God would share the knowledge with me as He promised. Christians do not need to go through a process of testing the knowledge God gives us we know for certain it's validity.

GC

---

Yeah, pretty much what I thought, your presumptions preach to your presumptions 

 I was answering your questions if you do not accept them that's on you. Also I'm tired of playing your little childish game don't expect more answers in this thread.

GC

[Godscreated]

  Yes all evidence is what I want to hear even when it's not what I expect. No it doesn't bloat my ego, it does how ever cause me to feel very good that God would share the knowledge with me as He promised. Christians do not need to go through a process of testing the knowledge God gives us we know for certain it's validity.

GC

Step 1: assume it's from God
Step 2: assume that it's valid
Step 3: Prophet

  Step 1: Jesus said His people will know His voice
  Step 2: Know it's valid because it's from God
  Step 3: Obey and be the servant for others

GC

[Edwardo Piet]

Your version had a shit punchline.

[LadyForCamus]

Why does god pick and choose who he shows the truth to? I've heard nothing from him by no fault of my own, yet I'm going to burn.

 You have to come to Christ as savior and lord before God will reveal the deeper meaning of scripture. God will move the hearts of those who seriously seek the salvation He offers.

GC

https://youtu.be/NhSvQLweKD4

[robvalue]

Salvation. Salvation from who? Oh, from him. Right. From what he's going do to us if he doesn't save us from himself.

If he'd just bugger off, no one would need saving.