hate the sin, love the sinner

[The Grand Nudger]

All you have to do is hate yourself..and then god might love you.

[Drich]

God simply identifies sin, which is why He and people who follow Him CAN Indeed separate sin from sinner.

That said there are only two, Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit (which you can not come back from) and not forgiving others as you have been forgiven (which you can amend by learning to forgive) These top His list.

Do you care to expound upon the blasphemy bit? I've never gotten a clear answer from any Christian theist as to what that entails, exactly.

This is an easy one..


first we start with a defination.
In Mark 3 the word is:
βλασφημέω blasphēméō, blas-fay-meh'-o; from G989; to vilify; specially, to speak impiously:—(speak) blaspheme(-er, -mously, -my), defame, rail on, revile, speak evil.

In the beginning of Mark 3:20 forward, The pharisees witnessed a miracle of the Holy Spirit They knew it to be a work of God, but rather than admit God was working in a way not familiar to them they attributed this witnessed miracle to satan.


Now, even in the context of the passage Christ who warns of this sin does not say the Pharisees actually committed this sin. But the assumption is that they did commit this sin as per the definition of the word blasphemeo. If this exegetical assumption is what one is working from, then to blaspheme the Spirit, is to write off, or to cast aside his work and ascribe it to satan.

So then how does this translate to us in modern times and disciples of Christ are long gone and we no longer see demons being cast out?

We look to the final lasting legacy of the Holy Spirit still active today. In that the Holy Spirit calls us to salvation, the Holy Spirit calls us to repentance. And, since we have been offered this oppertunity to repent as long as we live, to blaspheme the Spirit is to live a life that defies this call to repentance, this call to God. Because ultimatly the Spirit is the intercessor/ambassador of the Father. The Spirit's words are the words of the Father, to defame the Spirit is to defame the personal words the Father uses to reach out to you.

[Jesster]

And all I see there is "I don't hate you; the guy I worship hates you." You're guilty of hatred by association.

I'm sure there's another excuse headed my way, too.

Also, fuck you for assuming who I am is a choice.

Again, It does not seem to me that you've read what I have written...

It's not about WHO you are. It about how you identify with your sin. Do you adopt and make excuse for your sin fusing sinner with sin, or do you separate yourself from it?

That sport, is the Choice I and the bible identifies.

Again, We are all sinners all the time. The difference between the saved and unsaved are how we relate to the sin we are enslaved to. Do we love it or hate it?

Which brings me back to the illustration with addiction I made in the beginning. The one about Loving the sinner hating the sin. In that we can love an individual and hate their addiction.

Using that illustration, and applying your take on it, You are saying because you are addicted to a drug, who you are, was, and always will be, how you are defined as an individual.

If this were true, then if I were to say the names Hendricks, Presley, Jackson, Prince all you see is a list of dead addicts, that they can't be anything more than their addictions. When even in the world of moral relativism this is not true. these names represented the pinicale of a musical career. That we can love the art they made in the music they left, and lament the evil that ended their lives all too soon.

Again, separating sin from sinner. Which again is the choice we must all make for ourselves. are we more than the sins we are chained to? or does our sin define all that we are?

This is why I said YOUR CHOICE/YOUR RELATIONSHIP with God has Nothing to do with me. I do not see nor associate people with their sin, nor do I have the wherewithal to judge one better than another. It is not my place to decide for you whether or not you can self identify past the sin, that you (like me) are stuck in.

And again it does not seem like you have read what I have written. Funny how that works. The difference is that you are going way off-topic to a point that I don't care about. I am selecting the parts that are on topic and sticking to them. Let's do that some more.

MY "BIG SIN" THAT CHRISTIANS HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ISN'T A FUCKING CHOICE.

Oh, unless you want me to choose between that and suicide. Wait, that's a sin too, right?

And yet your god (who I will remind you that I don't believe exists, yet you do) shows no love for me anyway. This is called hypocrisy. Can we say hypocrisy, kids? By following with what you think your sky daddy thinks of me (which I think is all in your head anyway) you are reflecting that hate onto me.

There. That didn't take long. Now please go back to voting away my rights because of your religious zealotry. Oh, make sure to compare my life to a drug addict's again while you're at it.

Asshat.

[RoadRunner79]

I don't hate you Jester, and I don't believe that God does either.

Oh sure. But I'm going to go ahead and make a big assumption that you believe that your god will send me to his torture dungeon. That fills me with so much tingly love. Thank you for taking his side. You obviously have nothing against me either.

Do you think that we are not in the same boat?

[Jesster]

Oh sure. But I'm going to go ahead and make a big assumption that you believe that your god will send me to his torture dungeon. That fills me with so much tingly love. Thank you for taking his side. You obviously have nothing against me either.

Do you think that we are not in the same boat?

I don't care what you think of yourself. Just don't tell me you love me and then act like you hate me. Don't drag me into your dungeon fetish. The passive-aggressive judgement is very obvious no matter what fantasy it's hidden behind.

At least I admit it when I dislike someone.

I dislike you.

[RoadRunner79]

Do you think that we are not in the same boat?

I don't care what you think of yourself. Just don't tell me you love me and then act like you hate me. Don't drag me into your dungeon fetish. The passive-aggressive judgement is very obvious no matter what fantasy it's hidden behind.

At least I admit it when I dislike someone.

I dislike you.

I figured, that you hate a lot of people, by the way you are talking. I still love you, and want the best for you.

Even if you argue against a caricature.

[Gemini]

I figured, that you hate a lot of people, by the way you are talking.  I still love you, and want the best for you.

Even if you argue against a caricature.

In your opinion, what does it mean to hate a person? Does it mean to believe that they deserve to be tortured forever? Or does it mean it mean they find your attitude so disrespectful toward their humanity that they cannot have an amicable relationship with you?

[Jesster]

I don't care what you think of yourself. Just don't tell me you love me and then act like you hate me. Don't drag me into your dungeon fetish. The passive-aggressive judgement is very obvious no matter what fantasy it's hidden behind.

At least I admit it when I dislike someone.

I dislike you.

I figured, that you hate a lot of people, by the way you are talking.  I still love you, and want the best for you.

Even if you argue against a caricature.

Hate is an intense dislike. I hate some people and I am open about that. I dislike you and I am also open about that. You may be hated someday, but only if you earn it. I will first have to care more about you. I am not going to make any extreme actions based on that, though. You are free to be a dickweed. Christians, on the other hand, often make use of any power they have to make my life more miserable based on their dislike or hatred of me. This is not okay.

What I do hate is hypocrisy. Again, don't tell me you love me when you can't act like it. All you are doing is judging me and supporting a figure that you believe is going to punish me for a crime that he supposedly made up.

You are a hypocritical asshole trying to add as much spin as you can. If you admit that you do not love me, I will drop this. I like it when people tell the truth and you will get some respect back from me. I might still insult you, but it will probably be less likely to happen.

[RoadRunner79]

I figured, that you hate a lot of people, by the way you are talking.  I still love you, and want the best for you.

Even if you argue against a caricature.

In your opinion, what does it mean to hate a person? Does it mean to believe that they deserve to be tortured forever? Or does it mean it mean they find your attitude so disrespectful toward their humanity that they cannot have an amicable relationship with you?

Neither, I find that love (much like morality) is more about attitude, than any action. Hate would be the opposite of love. I don't believe that one fighting in war, need to hate the enemy, even though they are trying to kill them. Nor do I think that a judge must hate the one they are sentencing. While we may normally remove a judge with a close relationship to the one being tried for various reasons. If a judge was to give a harsh sentence to his child because he is honorable, and it is what is just. I wouldn't conclude, that he doesn't love his child. Neither do I wish ill upon those who I find it difficult to have an amicable relationship.

[Jesster]

In your opinion, what does it mean to hate a person? Does it mean to believe that they deserve to be tortured forever? Or does it mean it mean they find your attitude so disrespectful toward their humanity that they cannot have an amicable relationship with you?

Neither,  I find that love (much like morality) is more about attitude, than any action. Hate would be the opposite of love.   I don't believe that one fighting in war, need to hate the enemy, even though they are trying to kill them.   Nor do I think that a judge must hate the one they are sentencing.  While we may normally remove a judge with a close relationship to the one being tried for various reasons.   If a judge was to give a harsh sentence to his child because he is honorable, and it is what is just. I wouldn't conclude, that he doesn't love his child.   Neither do I wish ill upon those who I find it difficult to have an amicable relationship.

If the judge made up an arbitrary rule "because he said so" and sent that child to the torture dungeon, I'd certainly say he was an immoral tyrant who did not love that child. Anyone who dedicated their lives to that judge would also be guilty of not loving that child.