What is the Point of Believing in God Without Religion?

[Mister Agenda]

There doesn't have to be a point. People believe what they think is true. If they think that organized religion is problematic, but that some sort of God exists, that's what they believe. They don't need an agenda. For some, it's part of the process of becoming an atheist: lose faith in organized religion first, lose faith in the existence of God next. Or they might stick with deism or 'mere theism' for the rest of their lives.

[Drich]

Weak sauce.

The way I look at it, deism makes two unnecessary assumptions at a minimum:

1) Our reality had a cause

So now you are going anti Big bang as well???
Nice, easy pick'ns just got easier.

2) That cause was an intelligent being

You can easily make more, as a lot of people probably do:

3) This being required no cause
4) This being created everything except itself

Bible does not say any of that.

It simple states before there was time, God was. It further explains stars and the sun and moon was the start of time as the bible defines it.

Nothing is said about what happened before then, only God had a plan.

These second two preclude a computer programmer type situation, making sure it's the "top dog".

Once you move beyond this, you're just adding even more unnecessary assumptions. The more you make, the less rational you are being, in my opinion.

once you broach any of this you are adding unnecessary assumptions. for example if God did not have a cause any before us even the universe does not have to have a cause. What happens when we place the goal posts back to where the bible places them? in that we do not know much about the time before Genesis concerning God.

5) The being is concerned with the human race

We know God is indeed concerned about the Human race as He has expressed His concern.

6) The being is going to move us out of our reality when we die, into other realities, based on certain rules

yeah this one is a little messed up. In that we will be resurrected into this life, just a little further down the road.

7) The being interferes with our reality

Messed up too.. "The Being" allows us to live in His reality somewhat unchecked.

...and so on. You're making more and more wild assumptions at each point. Of course, the theist will feel that they have justification for all of these, so they won't consider them assumptions necessarily.

And of course the atheist would also feel they are continually justified in the argument that the universe need no cause if they too go off the creation or big bang path such as you have.

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You know your entire concept of Christ and Christianity was decided upon by men, right? Council of Nycea ring any bells?

Yeah, maybe you ought to plot a time line from then to now and maybe make note of the word "schism."

[Thumpalumpacus]

As long as they don't expect me to respect them any more than I do the Westboro Baptists, the Taliban or that church two doors down from where I live that creates a significant traffic hazard for me when I try to bike through that intersection on weekends, they can call themselves whatever the fuck they want.

If you can't defend your reason for believing in what you do any better than anyone else with an irrational system of belief, really, you're no different. They may have gotten 2+2 = 5 instead of 2+2=11 like some of the fundamentalists, but they're still wrong.

I base the respect I extend on behavior, not proclaimed faith. I think there's a big difference between a deist who keeps his faith to himself, and a fundamentalist who tries to enforce his religion through the law, or a terrorist who kills nonbelievers.

They may all be equally wrong theologically, but I think respect encompasses a lot more than that.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Like the religions about Jesus vs the religion of Jesus ?

Well yes.

Religions of Jesus can literally do anything in the name of God it wants. (and has done so) Open you History books, and look at 2000 years of what church 'history' can assimilate into what it deems a righteous religion. Or how it determines God's will, without any biblical support or precedent. Look at the Dark ages, look at the inquisition, or the crusades... Look at how hertics were treated. None of these behaivors were ever modeled by Christ. This was all the business of worshiping the church not Christ himself. The first time the church schismed from the teachings of Christ (Such as turn the other cheek rather than torture someone who sinned against the church, That religion stopped being about Jesus.

Look again at what Judaism had become in the time of Christ and they had a very comprehensive list. Things to follow and worship. But, by the time Christ had arrived it had become so perverse that He/Christ spent most of His time railing against the most holy men of his day. This perversion of Religion is just something we all do.

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It means they have even less to do with regard to religion. No books to read, no "good deeds" done in "God's" name, no services to attend, no tithes to pay. 

One step from me. 

sorry sport no. All of those things are modeled in scripture by Christ, so a worship of Christ would indeed include good works. As far as 'reading' is concerned for me it has doubbled if not trippled over the years to ensure I am on the path the bible lays out.

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"
sorry sport no. All of those things are modeled in scripture by Christ, so a worship of Christ would indeed include good works. As far as 'reading' is concerned for me it has doubbled if not trippled over the years to ensure I am on the path the bible lays out."

Not aware of ANY scripture BY Christ. 

[AceBoogie]

We have these people going around talking about they believe in god but not organized religion. What's the point? If god merely exists but is unable or unwilling to play a part in human affairs what difference does it make if we believe in him or not? Mere belief without a call to action has no virtue.

It is a very interesting thing when someone in today's age says, "I believe in god, not religion," or something along these lines. It's safe to say that belief in god was around before organized religion... but for the past.. who knows how many years, belief in god has been associated with some sort of organized religion. While I'm sure the spiritual, but not religious folks have been around since the beginning of time, it seems to be a popular thing to subscribe to now days, especially as people hope to maintain their faith in "something" while avoiding the chore of having to commit to any one set of beliefs, rituals or practices.

It's also a way to get away from the negative social stigma that a lot of religions face now days.

Quite honestly, the spiritual but not religious thing was a phase for me and a stepping stone to becoming an atheist. So I'm thankful for this type of rhetoric but when people settle there, rather than trudging onward into non-belief, it does confuse me.

It does seem quite pointless honestly. But to each their own I guess.

All in all though, I think people who subscribe to this sort of belief, or lack thereof depending on how you look at it, don't really think about their own beliefs as much as you are in this post.

[vorlon13]

Like the religions about Jesus vs the religion of Jesus ?

Well yes.

Religions of Jesus can literally do anything in the name of God it wants. (and has done so) Open you History books, and look at 2000 years of what church 'history' can assimilate into what it deems a righteous religion. Or how it determines God's will, without any biblical support or precedent. Look at the Dark ages, look at the inquisition, or the crusades... Look at how hertics were treated. None of these behaivors were ever modeled by Christ. This was all the business of worshiping the church not Christ himself. The first time the church schismed from the teachings of Christ (Such as turn the other cheek rather than torture someone who sinned against the church, That religion stopped being about Jesus.

Look again at what Judaism had become in the time of Christ and they had a very comprehensive list. Things to follow and worship. But, by the time Christ had arrived it had become so perverse that He/Christ spent most of His time railing against the most holy men of his day. This perversion of Religion is just something we all do.

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Um . . .

The religion of Jesus is called Judaism.  Perhaps you've heard of it ?

The religions about Jesus fall under that enormous umbrella of what is called Christianity.

The religion Jesus died for is Judaism.


I would hope (but never assume) this would be obvious to everyone with even a jot or tittle of motivation in the direction of piety.

[ApeNotKillApe]

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You know your entire concept of Christ and Christianity was decided upon by men, right? Council of Nycea ring any bells?

Yeah, maybe you ought to plot a time line from then to now and maybe make note of the word "schism."

[Drich]

Well yes.

Religions of Jesus can literally do anything in the name of God it wants. (and has done so) Open you History books, and look at 2000 years of what church 'history' can assimilate into what it deems a righteous religion. Or how it determines God's will, without any biblical support or precedent. Look at the Dark ages, look at the inquisition, or the crusades... Look at how hertics were treated. None of these behaivors were ever modeled by Christ. This was all the business of worshiping the church not Christ himself. The first time the church schismed from the teachings of Christ (Such as turn the other cheek rather than torture someone who sinned against the church, That religion stopped being about Jesus.

Look again at what Judaism had become in the time of Christ and they had a very comprehensive list. Things to follow and worship. But, by the time Christ had arrived it had become so perverse that He/Christ spent most of His time railing against the most holy men of his day. This perversion of Religion is just something we all do.

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sorry sport no. All of those things are modeled in scripture by Christ, so a worship of Christ would indeed include good works. As far as 'reading' is concerned for me it has doubbled if not trippled over the years to ensure I am on the path the bible lays out.

Um . . .

The religion of Jesus is called Judaism.  Perhaps you've heard of it ?

The religions about Jesus fall under that enormous umbrella of what is called Christianity.

The religion Jesus died for is Judaism.


I would hope (but never assume) this would be obvious to everyone with even a jot or tittle of motivation in the direction of piety.

Perfect example of religious word games.

Focus on the perceived loop hole and not God.

[emjay]

Question for you Drich. Do you think God can make a decision? As in weigh up and choose between alternatives as a human would in making a decision? And if so, being God and being perfect, would that imply that he could never make a wrong/bad decision and therefore that he always makes the best possible choice? And being omniscient, does that include knowledge of the future and therefore imply that all his choices also factor in the future? Is that how you see God's decision making process... after all, it is stated that man was created in God's image; does that include emulating, sans perfection, the way he thinks?... or do you see it as something different... maybe without decisions per se in real time or otherwise, or without human style thinking, or something else? I'm only asking this out of curiosity about your viewpoint, since you mentioned God's plan and I'm curious how you think such a plan was formed, but my question is not otherwise related to the thread.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

There doesn't have to be a point. People believe what they think is true. If they think that organized religion is problematic, but that some sort of God exists, that's what they believe. They don't need an agenda. For some, it's part of the process of becoming an atheist: lose faith in organized religion first, lose faith in the existence of God next. Or they might stick with deism or 'mere theism' for the rest of their lives.

What happens in a religious decline is that good honest/can't or won't lie to themselves people ask God earnestly for proof, to go deeper, to have some sense of conection to Him, because they in their religion peice together some sense of an offer and promise God makes.

The problem? It is spelled out in the parable of the wise and foolish builders.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu5bBDRpzPM

The house we build is our faith.

What we build on is the truth of God. or rather how true our picture of God is.

Meaning we can build identical faiths/go to the same church do the same things and essentially have identical homes.

Then we ask God to grow our faith so he sends the rain...

What is good for a faith with a solid foundation destroys the house that was not built on a true pic of God.

That is why in your pic organized religion goes first. It is easy to see the B/S religion tries to some times sell. charms pendants prayers to ward off bad luck, or a name and claim prosperity doctrine, or lay down scream and shake on the ground to talk to God, and on and on. So those who are looking to rebuild faith simply try and put back what they can of their house, never considering they are among those in whom Jesus counts as 'foolish men' and they build less of a house back on the same sand. And God sends the rains again and again each time whittling down more and more of the house. till the builder gives up.

That is one picture of God without religion. That of a sincere believer, too proud to consider that what they understand about God and religion is simply wrong, and while God will meet them in the matter of salvation, He is not willing to provide a short cut to a relationship. So because the proud believer assumes he got the 'right version of Christianity' out of the gate, and that they tried to contact God but Got nothing back, there can not be a God!

Another is found throughout the whole New Testament. In the various books of the NT that were written to Pastors like timothy, or to whole congregations like the church at Rome, Corinth, Thessaloniki. If you were to really look or study these books you will note these letters were written to different people restricting different freedoms or permitting freedoms others have been restricted from... Meaning there was no one hive minded church. (Peter and Paul disagreed on two major points early on.) There was no one form of Christian religion. That each church kinda did their own thing and each member kinda did his own thing so long as it did not breech our greatest command. yes some had tighter rules than others to follow, but all was based on an idea that is now all but lost. That is a personal relationship with God. That is the whole point of have God with out religion.

Religion is like a good set of trainning wheels. they help us get up right on our bikes, but can also hinder us from ever properly learning how to ride a bike if we do not shed them when the time is right.

That time is when the wind and rains come and your house or most of it falls flat. If and when that happens you need to take what is left in search for 'rock' to build on.

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"
sorry sport no. All of those things are modeled in scripture by Christ, so a worship of Christ would indeed include good works. As far as 'reading' is concerned for me it has doubbled if not trippled over the years to ensure I am on the path the bible lays out."

Not aware of ANY scripture BY Christ. 

And?