Trump orders wall to be built on Mexico border

[Catholic_Lady]

Yes, we were legal immigrants for 9 years before becoming citizens.

I don't know why some ppl dont just go through the whole process legally. But I guess regardless of how "easy" we make it, there are always going to be those who simply won't bother with it.

But I'm talking about people who are here illegally. If they run over the border (or simply overstay a student/work visa) because they want to make some money to send back home to their impoverished family, and then are hired by a company at dirt-poor wages...they're illegal. They don't get the citizenship study guides sent to them, they don't go to citizenship classes, and they sure as hell aren't going to appear anywhere near a courtroom to get some ID.

When I said 'process for becoming a citizen' I meant for illegals, should've clarified that.

Then come here lagally. There's a legal way to do it.

[abaris]

Well then dont be here illegally lol. There's a legal way to do it. And unless you're a refugee who is literally running for your life and can't afford to wait or w/e, you really should do things the legal way.

Come on, CL. Don't be that naive. Someone with no skills and no education to speak of, won't get in to go through the legal process. I remember you mentioning your parents having higher education - was it physicians? - so they fall into the desirable category.

[LadyForCamus]

One thing I don't get is instead of spending exorbitant amounts of money in deportation and walls, why not make becoming a citizen very, very easy, cheap and fast?

Easy question, the people who like walls and mass deportation aren't too fond of mexicans.  No one wants to hear it, everyone wants there to be something more to it.  There isn't.  

We'd get them socials, IDs, they'd pay taxes, etc etc.  

hehehehe, they already do....

The biggest complaint I hear about immigrants is the "they take our jobs" and "they don't pay taxes" and "they're using gov't services without giving anything back."  So...make it easy to become a citizen, and that kinda alleviates those problems, doesn't it?  Or at least they'll be arrested if they don't pay taxes...like my uncle.

Those aren't problems.  No one is taking anyones job, they do pay taxes, and they aren't eligible for "government services" (I do so love how the language in the executive order makes that whistle an issue of national policy, though).  The problem...is that they're just too damned mexican.  They don't have to dodge taxes to get arrested, they can get arrested for driving while brown.  You don't even have to be a mexican to get pulled for driving while brown, happens to plenty of citizens.

Oh, pesky, pesky facts.  Always getting in the way of people's pre-conclusions.    


Those are exactly my mother's gripes with the "illegals":

 "I'm paying for them to be on welfare!"   Um, no you aren't.  They aren't eligible for government assistance.   "Well, they don't pay taxes!"  But...yes they do.  "Well, they're taking our jobs!"  No, they aren't.  And in some declining cities near where I am from, they're actually BOOSTING the economy by starting up local businesses.  

Needless to say...she hasn't budged on the issue.  Go Trump...

[Thumpalumpacus]

Here's a fun q, how will we fill our new camps?  What will the sop be for all the new employees.  Just how do you figure out whether or not someone is illegal.  What does being under suspicion of being illegal entail?  How do they propose to differentiate between citizens and illegals?

Random checkpoints at which you will be asked to show your papers?
Raids on businesses to demand that employees produce a birth certificate?
Pulling over people that look "immigranty"?

All of the above?

(you know the best way to get em would be to require a valid id at the grocery store checkout for all purchases, put a little camera on top of the lane light - bingo.)

My prediction: DHS offers a $500 bounty to any employer turning in illegals they discover on their own payroll. Monetize nat'l security, I say!

[FatAndFaithless]

I mean...just saying "Well don't be here illegally lol" is...not helpful. We already have 11 million people who are.

[Catholic_Lady]

I don't know why some ppl dont just go through the whole process legally. But I guess regardless of how "easy" we make it, there are always going to be those who simply won't bother with it.

Because they can't, as min already pointed out. If they're illegals, they can't. If they're not desirable, they can't move legally to the states, so they haven't got the opportunity to go through the process.

I guess we need to take a good hard look at what makes ppl "undesirable."

If someone is a criminal, then I think it is reasonable to turn them away. If they are simply poor and uneducated, I don't think that is a legitimate reason.

---

Well then dont be here illegally lol. There's a legal way to do it. And unless you're a refugee who is literally running for your life and can't afford to wait or w/e, you really should do things the legal way.

Someone with no skills and no education to speak of, won't get in to go through the legal process.

Then that^ is what needs to change.

[abaris]

Then that^ is what needs to change.

Apart from the question of "how", there's another thing. Who's going to toil the fields if they're gone? Who's cleaning the offices?

That's the jobs they're doing and that's also not the kind of jobs Americans want to do. Not for that kind of money being on offer.

[Minimalist]

But I'm talking about people who are here illegally.  If they run over the border (or simply overstay a student/work visa) because they want to make some money to send back home to their impoverished family, and then are hired by a company at dirt-poor wages...they're illegal.  They don't get the citizenship study guides sent to them, they don't go to citizenship classes, and they sure as hell aren't going to appear anywhere near a courtroom to get some ID.

When I said 'process for becoming a citizen' I meant for illegals, should've clarified that.

Then come here lagally. There's a legal way to do it.

You really are clueless about this stuff?  You aren't faking it?

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/im...s-from-big

Per-country quotas restrict individuals from any single country seeking to come to the U.S. to no more than 7 percent of the green cards available in any category in any year. This restriction favors those from small countries at the expense of those from larger ones. By treating nationality as the relevant factor, India is treated equally with Luxembourg, but Indian immigrants are massively disadvantaged.

The large countries that are most disadvantaged — the Philippines, India, China and Mexico — are all non-European nations that, until recently, had little ethnic representation in the U.S.While the issue is ignored, the lines for visas have stretched to absurd lengths. Adult children of U.S. citizens from Mexico, Philippines, India and China can expect seven- to 21-year waiting periods.

So yeah - there is a "legal" way to do it.... and it really helps if you aren't from one of those "brown" or "yellow" countries.

[The Grand Nudger]

It needed to change years and years ago, but "tough on immigration" asshats pandered to humanity's lowest common denominators, instead.... and so here we are.

[Catholic_Lady]

Then that^ is what needs to change.

Apart from the question of "how", there's another thing. Who's going to toil the fields if they're gone? Who's cleaning the offices?

That's the jobs they're doing and that's also not the kind of jobs Americans want to do. Not for that kind of money being on offer.

Right. A person can be a perfectly good, honest, hardworking person while still being poor and uneducated.

We would need to get to the root of the problem and look at what sort of "criteria" we use to allow ppl in.

---

Then come here lagally. There's a legal way to do it.

You really are clueless about this stuff?  You aren't faking it?

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/im...s-from-big

Per-country quotas restrict individuals from any single country seeking to come to the U.S. to no more than 7 percent of the green cards available in any category in any year. This restriction favors those from small countries at the expense of those from larger ones. By treating nationality as the relevant factor, India is treated equally with Luxembourg, but Indian immigrants are massively disadvantaged.

The large countries that are most disadvantaged — the Philippines, India, China and Mexico — are all non-European nations that, until recently, had little ethnic representation in the U.S.While the issue is ignored, the lines for visas have stretched to absurd lengths. Adult children of U.S. citizens from Mexico, Philippines, India and China can expect seven- to 21-year waiting periods.

So yeah - there is a "legal" way to do it.... and it really helps if you aren't from one of those "brown" or "yellow" countries.

We came from Venezuela and Brazil in the 90's. 3rd world, non European countires. By "we" I mean my parents and siblings, my paternal grandparents, and my paternal aunts and uncles with their kids. And half of us are "brown".

Yes, there is a legal way to do it lol. Let's not pretend like there isnt.

The question is whether the criteria for letting ppl in is fair. If not, then that is what needs to change in the first place.