What is your favourite positive argument for atheism/unbelief?

[Aroura]

In the future the Christian religion will be considered myth.

Until Christ returns and the unbelievers are thrown in the Lake of Fire.

That thought makes you smile, I see.

---

"Venting" not "raging". I view ALL RELIGIONS the same as if my own mother kept repeating every day "The New England Patriots beat the Chicago Cubs in the Stanley Cup" I love my mother, I MISS MY MOTHER, but that does not mean I have to blindly value every thing she claimed to be true. 

Yes, bad logic and naked assertions piss me off. NO, that does not mean I hate you personally. It just means on any given topic I am not buying that claim. My mom when I was growing up often got to the point where she spoke up and said, "STOP DOING THAT" or "STOP SAYING THAT IT IS NOT TRUE". When my mom was right she was right, but she was not right about everything. I view my species capability the same way. I don't have to like everything you say but merely saying "bullshit" isn't a call for your death or arrest. It is simply saying "you got it wrong".

Sometimes it's hard to tell online and it definitely seems like you've been on the Red Bull for a few days

Anyway, I see that we're at an impasse so I'll drop the subject, except to say that if you ever want to know where I was coming from, I'd recommend reading the book 'What The Buddha Taught' by Walpola Sri Rahula, ISBN 9781851681426. That's my favourite book on Buddhism and the most influential for me.

The Buddha's writings are like legal documents, with every term clearly defined, and much repetition to get the points across... I'd swear he had OCD But that sort of writing appeals to me because I like to know exactly where I stand in anything, with nothing left vague or to chance... it's not like reading the Bible at all but rather reading a philosophical/psychological theory, and one with no appeal to faith, only logic and observation. So if you wish to dismiss my 'claim' on the grounds that it's bullshit or that the logic doesn't convince you, fair enough, that's your prerogative and I won't argue with that but just be clear that all I am claiming is that some (and I would personally say most... barring the reincarnation stuff which is only a small part of it) of the Buddha's alleged writings (in this book) make sound logical and psychological sense, for use as tools in this life for happier living. That's all I'm claiming. And for me it is manifestly true, without any appeal to the mystical, because it does help me deal better psychologically with things. But as Neo is fond of saying... YMMV... and clearly it does. So there we are... I'll drop the subject now.

Triple thumbs up for this post.
I use Taoism to cope, but it's very similar. Neither require appeals to the mystical or so called supernatural.

There are a number of modern psychological techniques that use eastern philsophy, not religion but philosophy, as part of their basis. Not hokum, but scientific methods. Practices used to divert, calm, and cope.

It's better than tossing Xanex at a person, and it should not be laughed off nor lumped in with religions that rely on magical thinking and special pleading.

Namaste, emjay!

[Little Rik]

I do not follow religions.
I instead follow logic.
We do not know who wrote the Bible.
Certainly not the Christian that came much later.
I am not an expert in Bible so I can not say whether what is written in the Bible is all truth all rubbish or some is true and some is rubbish in any case I take what make sense as good and what doesn't as bad.
That sentence that say.........Man created in God's image.......make a lot of sense that is why I explained to you my point.

There are real people and real cities mentioned in the bible sure, but those mentions are there after the legends are spoken and by adding real names and places after the fact is a literary device to draw the reader in. It still does not make it true that humans have super powers or talk to the "otherworld". Plato's Apology mentions real people and real places but that does not make the Greek or Roman god's real. The original book Peter Pan mentions the city of London but that does not mean little boys can fly like that in reality.

It still remains that men DON'T magically pop out of dirt. It takes TWO sets of DNA to lead to a new pregnancy and humans do not survive the death myth as the bible would have you believe.

What this death myth suppose to mean to you?

(color mine)

[pocaracas]

@op: psychology.

The complexity of the human mind.
Its endless capacity for imagination.
Its ever search for explanations.

Combine those two in an era of mostly ignorance and you get magic as a reason for many phenomena.
Combine that with the fear of death (your own or your loved ones') and you get the afterlife.

Combine that with human hierarchy and you get a ruler of the realm where the afterlife occurs... Call it what you will.

[downbeatplumb]

Until Christ returns and the unbelievers are thrown in the Lake of Fire.  

He's not coming back. He was nailed to a cross, not a boomerang.

[Brian37]

He's not coming back. He was nailed to a cross, not a boomerang.

Nobody died and rose in any case. That act of state murder was around in polytheism long before Christianity ripped off the icon of torture. And the claim itself, just as a claim "he is coming back" still makes no sense. Why the do over if you got it right the first time, you wouldn't have to clean up your own mess. Doesn't sound like a "perfect" god to me. 

But yea, that is a funny comeback in any case. Gave me a chuckle too.

[emjay]

Sometimes it's hard to tell online and it definitely seems like you've been on the Red Bull for a few days

Anyway, I see that we're at an impasse so I'll drop the subject, except to say that if you ever want to know where I was coming from, I'd recommend reading the book 'What The Buddha Taught' by Walpola Sri Rahula, ISBN 9781851681426. That's my favourite book on Buddhism and the most influential for me.

The Buddha's writings are like legal documents, with every term clearly defined, and much repetition to get the points across... I'd swear he had OCD But that sort of writing appeals to me because I like to know exactly where I stand in anything, with nothing left vague or to chance...  it's not like reading the Bible at all but rather reading a philosophical/psychological theory, and one with no appeal to faith, only logic and observation. So if you wish to dismiss my 'claim' on the grounds that it's bullshit or that the logic doesn't convince you, fair enough, that's your prerogative and I won't argue with that but just be clear that all I am claiming is that some (and I would personally say most... barring the reincarnation stuff which is only a small part of it) of the Buddha's alleged writings (in this book) make sound logical and psychological sense, for use as tools in this life for happier living. That's all I'm claiming. And for me it is manifestly true, without any appeal to the mystical, because it does help me deal better psychologically with things. But as Neo is fond of saying... YMMV... and clearly it does. So there we are... I'll drop the subject now.

Triple thumbs up for this post.
I use Taoism to cope, but it's very similar. Neither require appeals to the mystical or so called supernatural.

There are a number of modern psychological techniques that use eastern philsophy, not religion but philosophy, as part of their basis. Not hokum, but scientific methods. Practices used to divert, calm, and cope.

It's better than tossing Xanex at a person, and it should not be laughed off nor lumped in with religions that rely on magical thinking and special pleading.

Namaste, emjay!

Thanks Aroura   I don't know anything about Taoism, except that you and Aegon find it appealing, but from what you've said, you've got me curious to see what it has to say

For me, Buddhism (and probably/maybe Taoism) is basically a philosophy of 'fuck it' That's been it's greatest gift to me; perspective... helps keep me grounded... and perhaps even better than the Clockwork Universe in that regard.

You should see a Buddhist forum in action. It's completely different from here... a complete change of pace. Everybody says no more and no less than is necessary to make their point, and if it looks like an argument is going to develop, people just pre-empt it and gracefully withdraw. In that regard it's kind of boring... not a place you'd really go to hang out... but nonetheless I do find it inspiring because it's a very peaceful existence.

The hardest part of mastering non-attachment I think is in learning how to neither cling to or push things away... just peacefully co-exist, without attachment, to whatever there is. Where life and all things we could be attached to are likened to a rock concert; you go in fully aware that it won't last forever but that doesn't stop you enjoying it in the moment, or indeed buying tickets to go.

My sister gave me this link and found it hilarious but funnily enough, I didn't actually find it that hilarious because it's pretty accurate as to what meditation can be like  





Namaste to you to Aroura! (I don't know what it means, but I'm guessing it's not "fuck off" )

[Brian37]

There are real people and real cities mentioned in the bible sure, but those mentions are there after the legends are spoken and by adding real names and places after the fact is a literary device to draw the reader in. It still does not make it true that humans have super powers or talk to the "otherworld". Plato's Apology mentions real people and real places but that does not make the Greek or Roman god's real. The original book Peter Pan mentions the city of London but that does not mean little boys can fly like that in reality.

It still remains that men DON'T magically pop out of dirt. It takes TWO sets of DNA to lead to a new pregnancy and humans do not survive the death myth as the bible would have you believe.

What this death myth suppose to mean to you?

(color mine)

What part of "death myth" do you not understand?

If you do to a human being what the death story of Jesus IN REAL LIFE you would DIE, there would be no more you, you do not survive death, there is no such thing as a "soul" or "spirit", when your brain dies you die, no more you. 

In all of antiquity humans made up all sorts of hero deities, Jesus is simply another hero story. Everyone loves the underdog motif. Luke Skywalker defeating Darth Vader. The only difference between the two is one is believed to be real when it is not, and the other is rightfully accepted as si fi fiction.

Humans invent all sorts of god/s, deities because it is merely projecting a desire of continuing. There is no such thing as "immortality". In 5 billion years our species will have long gone extinct, our sun will either expand or collapse and kill our planet and our solar system will die and the galaxy and universe will go on with NO RECORD that humans were here and the god myths and religions will die when our species goes extinct regardless.

[Little Rik]

What this death myth suppose to mean to you?

(color mine)

What part of "death myth" do you not understand?

If you do to a human being what the death story of Jesus IN REAL LIFE you would DIE, there would be no more you, you do not survive death, there is no such thing as a "soul" or "spirit", when your brain dies you die, no more you. 

In all of antiquity humans made up all sorts of hero deities, Jesus is simply another hero story. Everyone loves the underdog motif. Luke Skywalker defeating Darth Vader. The only difference between the two is one is believed to be real when it is not, and the other is rightfully accepted as si fi fiction.

Humans invent all sorts of god/s, deities because it is merely projecting a desire of continuing. There is no such thing as "immortality". In 5 billion years our species will have long gone extinct, our sun will either expand or collapse and kill our planet and our solar system will die and the galaxy and universe will go on with NO RECORD that humans were here and the god myths and religions will die when our species goes extinct regardless.

Energy never die so to speak Brian.
Even science say so.
It just get recycled.
Nothing die in this universe.
There no evidence that anything die so your guessing stay a guessing.
Guessing and evidence are two different stories.

Too many people get fooled when they see a body and think that his-her consciousness
is dead too.
Don't be fooled Brian.
Isn't worth it.  

[Brian37]

What part of "death myth" do you not understand?

If you do to a human being what the death story of Jesus IN REAL LIFE you would DIE, there would be no more you, you do not survive death, there is no such thing as a "soul" or "spirit", when your brain dies you die, no more you. 

In all of antiquity humans made up all sorts of hero deities, Jesus is simply another hero story. Everyone loves the underdog motif. Luke Skywalker defeating Darth Vader. The only difference between the two is one is believed to be real when it is not, and the other is rightfully accepted as si fi fiction.

Humans invent all sorts of god/s, deities because it is merely projecting a desire of continuing. There is no such thing as "immortality". In 5 billion years our species will have long gone extinct, our sun will either expand or collapse and kill our planet and our solar system will die and the galaxy and universe will go on with NO RECORD that humans were here and the god myths and religions will die when our species goes extinct regardless.

Energy never die so to speak Brian.
Even science say so.
It just get recycled.
Nothing die in this universe.
There no evidence that anything die so your guessing stay a guessing.
Guessing and evidence are two different stories.

Too many people get fooled when they see a body and think that his-her consciousness
is dead too.
Don't be fooled Brian.
Isn't worth it.  

No, science does not say that because atoms move on that a single atom can behave like a adult in tact brain. Yes atoms move on, no shit, that does not make ANY god real, not yours not any, science merely says atoms make up everything. But there are huge buildups required to go from a single atom to an adult brain. You are trying to confuse a single tire as having the capability of being the in tact running car. When your brain dies YOU DIE, that is it, a single atom by itself cannot retain the same function as an in tact brain.

Atoms exist, atoms get recycled, therefor Allah. Still make sense to you?
Atoms exist, atoms get recycled, therefor Yahweh. Still make sense to you?
Atoms exist, atoms get recycled, therefor Buddha's reincarnation is true. Still make sense to you?
Atoms exist, atoms get recycled, therefor the Hindu creator God Bhrama is real. Still make sense to you?

How about the least complicated explanation as to why humans claim any god/s/deities? How about humans simply project a fictional concept of immortality because they like the idea and have vivid imaginations?

None of biological life or the universe needs a magic super cognition to explain. For the same reason you know Poseidon isn't needed to explain why hurricanes happen. For the same reason you don't need Thor to explain the existence of lightening.

[Simon Moon]

I do not follow religions.
I instead follow logic.

The hell you do!

You wouldn't know a logical argument if it bit you in the ass.

Logical arguments are a process of creating a new statement from one or more existing statements. An argument proceeds from a set of premises to a conclusion, by means of logical implication, via a procedure called logical inference.

They follow the form:

Premise 1
P2
P3
.
.
.
Conclusion.

This is called the syllogistic form.

For the conclusion to follow logically from the premises, every premise has to be sound (they have to be demonstrably true), and the entire logical argument has to be valid (it can not be fallacious).

I have never seen anything close to that from you.

Your premises are almost always unfounded assertions based on what you want to be true. And you arguments are always fallacious.

Please, prove that you are indeed logical, and create one syllogism that will lead to one of your conclusions.


Here, I'll give you a starting point. Fill in sound premises that will lead to your conclusion:

P1
P2
P3
.
Conclusion - Too many people get fooled when they see a body and think that his-her consciousness
is dead too.