A Question From Atheists

[Ravenshire]

I am curious as to what you are trying to accomplish here, will you leave with the opinion atheists cannot disprove the existence of god?
I would ask you to bring us proof.  You seem to be playing word games.

Since he ignores posts refuting his absurdities and continues under the false belief that atheism means we deny the existence of gods, I'm guessing he's here to tilt at straw-men.

[The Grand Nudger]

I appreciate your answers. 

Hey, that's what the board is all about - glad to be of service, lol.

Thank you. 

You asserted that you lack the belief in "all gods". I just presented you the Pantheist's god which is the universe itself. For pantheist, god is another term to refer to the universe. You are claiming that universe cannot be god and these two cannot be unified. I assume this is your subjective opinion. This is a fact that the universe is considered as god in various beliefs.

As for your analogy, I suppose this is a false analogy. Unlike god, Atheism has a very clear definition and nobody would accept your definition " liking chocolate was being an atheist". But "god is the universe" is a valid definition of god, it might be different from the version of god that you have known, but that doesn't mean it's an unacceptable definition.

The subject of god doesn't seem to be lacking in any clear definition for me either, it's just as easy for me to realize that no matter what a pantheist believes about the universe, it's not a god - it's the universe, nor would me believing in the universe also mean that I believed in gods, nor would the universe clearly existing show that a god clearly exists.

All the existence of pantheism shows, and all the existence of the universe shows..is that there are some people in the universe who call it god.  I could call you Susan Besmicket..but that wouldn't mean that Susan was your name, or that Susan Besmicket existed.  

You supposed wrong. I'll take "equivocation" for 500 alex.

When you state "I do not believe in any gods" you are implying that you are aware of all gods and you deny their existence. But I just presented the pantheist's god which's existence cannot be negated. 

It would be pointless to assert that I'm aware of all gods..since every christer, for example, has his own personal jesus that lives in his head and likes what he likes and hates what he hates...... but I'm familiar with the category as a whole, and I do deny the existence of any proposed entity in that category.  Most atheists don't, but I don't mind.

The pantheists classification -as- a god was negated...so that one's not much of an issue for me.  How about you?  Do you think that pantheist god exists?

[Astreja]

I've come to the conclusion, after many attempts at belief, that at most I could believe in a god-like being --

-- if it materialized right in front of me in physical form. So far that hasn't happened, so my non-belief remains intact.

In addition to being an atheist, I'm also a strong agnostic and have come to the conclusion that there is simply no way to definitively know the true nature of anything that presents as a god.

[nosferatu323]

So, the word "God" can be re-defined as whatever the hell you want it to be? A basketball on a desert island? The mighty dollar? A Universe? 

A duck? 

A hat?

I don't believe the Universe is "God". It's the Universe. 

Why is it so important to you that folks just call something, anything "God"? 
Does it soothe you? 

I don't understand.

I can call my left shoe a god, but that doesn't make it any more special than it was before. The same applies to the universe. What does calling it a god do for it?

We do not call anything god. We consider the things that have been called god throughout the human history to be gods.

I did not present you my own or an arbitrary definition of god. In fact "god is the universe" is rooted in one of the oldest religious texts which are referred to as The Vedas. It can also be traced back to ancient greek philosophers. There are also certain sects in Christianity, Judaism and Islam which hold similar views. Anyways, I do not want to insist on this definition, I just provided a widespread and ancient definition of god which clearly cannot be negated. 

OP, when the Muslims kill and yell allahu Akbar, are they saying the universe is great?

We all agree the universe is great? Why do they need to kill in it's unconscious honour?

I assume those people who you are referring to have a different conception of god. I don't think they believe universe is god. This belief is found in various Hindu traditions for example and also mystical branches of Abrahamic religions (including Islam). On a side note, "Allahu Akbar" means God is Greater (than whatever you can imagine) not God is Great. This is a very common mis-translation.

I am curious as to what you are trying to accomplish here, will you leave with the opinion atheists cannot disprove the existence of god?
I would ask you to bring us proof. You seem to be playing word games.

I was genuinely interested to know what most Atheists mean when they say "I don't believe in god(s)". Because this sentences seems non-sensical concerning some definitions of the term god. Therefore it needed some clarification for me. I also thought that bringing up this topic might be informative for atheists who are not aware of some conceptions of god which are not common in the West. I do not have any intention to prove anything. 

Since he ignores posts refuting his absurdities and continues under the false belief that atheism means we deny the existence of gods, I'm guessing he's here to tilt at straw-men.

I tried to answer all the posts in this thread. I'm sorry if I happened to miss yours. I also cannot correlate the content of this thread with what you describe here. If you are referring to the concept of "god as the universe itself" as "my absurdities", you can do some research using the term "Pantheism" to verify that this concept of god is not my invention.

Anyways, I thank everyone for providing their insights on this. I learned that most likely you guys are denying the Christian/Muslim/Jewish god which is a person and will judge people after they die, etc. and also I learned that you find the Pantheist's god as something strange and inapplicable to the concept of god. Which might mean your conception of god is limited to the common conception of followers of Abrahamic religions.

[Jesster]

Wait. You acknowledge that there are people who do not believe that the universe is god and you seem fine with it. Why then are you insisting that we accept the same thing? Do you call the universe god?


Also, enough with the straw manning already. You keep doing that. Stop telling other people what they believe.

[The Grand Nudger]

Some concepts of god are nonsensical, and the definition of a god you provided has been negated...so now you're piling reassertion on top of equivocation. Sure, I think the abrahamic god is bullshit...but I also think that the european gods are bullshit, the greek gods are bullshit, the near and middle eastern gods are bullshit, that the african gods are bullshit, that the chinese gods are bullshit, that the indian gods are bullshit, that the mesoamerican gods are bullshit...on and on we could go. All of these gods are very different from each other in important ways...but they are all members of the set. A set which does not include "the universe" - which isn't bullshit.

[Cyberman]

Atheists are under no obligation to provide a definition of gods we don't believe in. Theists assert that a god - at least - exists; atheists reject that assertion as unsupported until it's not. If the god(s) in which atheists don't believe is ill-defined, or undefined, that's the theists' problem.

[nosferatu323]

Wait. You acknowledge that there are people who do not believe that the universe is god and you seem fine with it. Why then are you insisting that we accept the same thing? Do you call the universe god?

I think you got me wrong. I'm just saying that there are some definitions of god which's existence cannot be negated like these:
- God is being
- God is consciousness 
- God is the existence itself
- God is the universe itself
...

Also, enough with the straw manning already. You keep doing that. Stop telling other people what they believe.

Ok.

definition of a god you provided has been negated

I think I understand your position and you also understand mine. We only need to settle this one issue. You see the point I want to make is that god is not something definite it's just a word. people from different cultures have given different meanings to this word, some people in the human history considered god to be the universe as a whole. Please note that this is not a claim! this is simply a definition. You cannot negate a definition. 

Now I'm asking you: Why god cannot be the universe? what prevents the universe to be considered god? what definitions/characteristics/conditions do you have for god in your mind which are inapplicable to the universe? 

Atheists are under no obligation to provide a definition of gods we don't believe in. Theists assert that a god - at least - exists; atheists reject that assertion as unsupported until it's not. If the god(s) in which atheists don't believe is ill-defined, or undefined, that's the theists' problem.

I don't think that's true. When I say "X does not exist" I must define X, otherwise my sentence does not have any meaning.

[Jesster]

I think you got me wrong. I'm just saying that there are some definitions of god which's existence cannot be negated like these:
- God is being
- God is consciousness 
- God is the existence itself
- God is the universe itself
...

So you're okay with it as long as it can't be proven wrong. What I care about is what you can prove as factual. At this point the word "god" is being thrown around so loosely that you can never test it on anything though. It's a useless label.

[Minimalist]

I think you got me wrong. I'm just saying that there are some definitions of god which's existence cannot be negated like these:
- God is being
- God is consciousness 
- God is the existence itself
- God is the universe itself
...

God is a figment of your imagination.