The undeniable miracle at Fatima

[Joods]

So far I've yet to see anyone disprove what has been presented. Instead I'm just reading "I refuse to believe" against thousands of testimonials from people who didn't know each other.

As you have asked members of an Atheist Forum for our opinions on the matter, you damn well knew that the right to ask for concrete evidence outside of the opinions or thoughts of others (read: testimonials) was going to come up. Or are you really this dense that you didn't think we would have the balls to ask? You are just like every other theist that has come here with their own twisted story. We are going to demand that you bring scientific proof of any claims that you or anyone else makes regarding religion or deities. It's that simple. If you thought you were going to make a post about miracles and we were just going to believe based off of "testimonials" from "thousands of people who didn't know each other", then you are sadly mistaken. You also seem to misunderstand that the majority of us come from religious backgrounds. It is why some of us are atheists today. You can spin your story into a thousand different versions. At the end of the day - show proof or shut up. 

Here's an idea: How about this, instead of asking us what our opinions are on the matter, why don't you tell us exactly what you want us to say. That way, we can laugh for hours and hours together over a big bag of weed. 

While we're at it, we might as well pick a few random events in history that have plenty of testimonials, and deny those too. Boston tea party? Sounds fishy to me, therefore it never happened. Abe Lincoln's assassination? I don't believe it could have happened that way, therefore it never happened.

 You cannot possibly compare your OP, which is based entirely on the opinions of "eyewitnesses", to the Boston Tea Party, which was the very thing that kicked off our revolution against the British Monarchy. That was one of the largest pieces of history for the United States. It most certainly isn't "random".  

History of the Boston Tea Party
Cause of the Boston Tea Party
see below (taken from the first link):

At nine o'clock on the night of December 16, 1773, a band of Bostonians disguised as Native Americans boarded the British merchant ship Dartmouth and two companion vessels anchored at Griffin's Wharf in Boston harbor. The Americans, who numbered around 70, shared a common aim: to destroy the ships' cargo of British East India Company tea. Many years later George Hewes, a 31–year–old shoemaker and participant, recalled "We then were ordered by our commander to open the hatches and take out all the chests of tea and throw them overboard. And we immediately proceeded to execute his orders, first cutting and splitting the chests with our tomahawks, so as thoroughly to expose them to the effects of the water." Urged on by a crowd of cheering townspeople, the disguised Bostonians destroyed 342 chests of tea estimated to be worth between £10,000 and £18,000. Their actions, which became known as the Boston Tea Party, set in motion events that led directly to the American Revolution (1775–83).

Paul Revere was one of the over 100 participants in the Boston Tea Party. But I suppose that you don't believe he existed, even though he is buried in Boston and had a very important role in our history. See below: 

Paul Revere was an American silversmith and a patriot in the American Revolution. He is most famous for alerting Colonial militia of British invasion before the Battles of Lexington and Concord. Revere was a prosperous and prominent Boston silversmith who helped organize an intelligence and alarm system to keep watch on the British military. Revere later served as an officer in the Penobscot Expedition, one of the most disastrous campaigns of the American Revolutionary War, for which he was absolved of blame. In the 1770s Revere immersed himself in the movement toward political independence from Great Britain. As the acknowledged leader of Boston’s mechanic class, he proved an invaluable link between artisan and intellectual. In 1773 he donned Indian garb and joined 50 other patriots in the Boston Tea Party protest against parliamentary taxation without representation. On April 16, 1775, he rode to nearby Concord to urge the patriots to move their military stores endangered by pending British troop movements. Finally, two days later, he set out on his most famous journey to alert his countrymen that the redcoats were on the march, particularly in search of Revolutionary leaders John Hancock and Samuel Adams. Because of Paul Revere’s Ride, the Minutemen were ready the next morning on Lexington green for the historic battle that launched the War of Independence. With the outbreak of hostilities, Revere turned industrialist and constructed a much-needed powder mill to supply colonial arms. In 1776, he was put in command of Boston Harbor’s principal defense at Castle William, but his war record as a lieutenant colonel was largely undistinguished. He resumed his stride as a successful industrialist after the war, however, and set up a rolling mill for the manufacture of sheet copper at Canton, Massachusetts. From this factory came sheathing for many U.S. ships, including the , and the dome of the Massachusetts statehouse. Even after his military and political career ended he continued to discuss the issues of the day, and in 1814 he circulated a petition offering the government the services of Boston’s artisans in protecting Boston during the War of 1812. Revere died on May 10, 1818, at the age of 83, at his home on Charter Street in Boston. He is buried in the Granary Burying Ground on Tremont Street.

credit: Boston Tea Party Participants


Another non-random event that you refer insultingly as a "random" event, was the very real assassination of a beloved president. There are records in existence that can prove he was shot. Like the actual notes from two doctors who performed the autopsy of President Lincoln.
see below for an example of actual evidence:
Dr. Joseph Janvier Woodwards Autopsy notes taken from the link above:


Oh look. More evidence from Dr. Robert King Stone's autopsy notes:


page two: 

page three:

Such is the absurd position of atheists who accept history handed down to them only when it suits them, and deny what they don't personally believe. What hypocrisy. Let an atheist write our history books and we will only get part of what really happened.

Well well well. I provided several pieces of evidence against your claims of pieces of history that you poorly attempted to downplay as "random". Showed you photographed evidence and gave you links, where if you wanted to visit places in Boston - you now have links to a Boston museum. Go to the Smithsonian Institute in Washington DC. There's plenty of history there. None of it is random either. Do you get it now? THAT is how you provide evidence. What's hypocrisy is the fact that YOU will still be in denial after you read this post and you will totally ignore every aspect of what's in my post. Oh - and I didn't write this for you. I wrote it for me, to remind myself of why I continue to not ever believe in your brand of bullshit. 

Such is the absurd position of theists like yourself, who come in here and expect logical-minded people to just believe you because "you say so" and you have weak, subjective opinions of others, which really, come on, isn't evidence and you know this. But you keep on trying to spin that old song and dance into new versions. We will come at you with the same questions every time. And please - stop getting all offended when we refute you on this. You did after all, ask for our opinions. 

Sorry, not sorry. You don't get to try this tactic with a group of people who are inherently more logical than 99% of theists that come in here trying to guilt us or trick us or smooth talk us into believing their brand of woo. And fuck off with you for trying to insult two important periods in the history of the United States.

[pocaracas]

I read the news report in Portuguese. The one that came out three next day. Written by a reporter that was present at the site.
He didn't see anything... Except a few idiots claiming they were seeing the sun wobbling.
A few is most definitely not thousands.

And it is common practice, among any assembly of people where differing opinions are to be expected, to have a few agents spread out to incite a particular message on the silent majority, thus making it look like most people share that message.
Testimonies from the 60's come more than 40 years too late to be anything more than anecdotes.

 
Isn't it funny that all the testimonies gathered in 1960 from people all over the world but didn't know each other, all coincided and said the same thing?
 
By the way, after the miracle in 1917, it took the Catholic Church 13 years and thousands of pages of testimonials to investigate the matter. If they were out to just scam the world to somehow draw attention or make a profit, they wouldn't have spent so long looking into it. In the end, in 1930, the Catholic Church made an official pronouncement approving of the authenticity of the miracle.

Tell me... why do you present us with testimonies gathered in the 60's, when you know there are testimonies that were gathered in the few years after the event? Why not give us those that convinced the catholic church?

But, even if you had those, what is the level of evidence required for the Vatican to conclude that a miracle has indeed occurred? And do remind me how much of an uninterested party they are.

Also, if you want funny, isn't it funny that the reporter on the scene didn't see anything? But saw a few people claiming they'd seen something...
Memory is a fickle thing... I advise you to listen to the Serial podcast: https://serialpodcast.org/season-one You might learn something before it's done. HEY HEY HEY!

[ignoramus]

I just got a reply from Kevin @ virtual_universes R US. Wow! It all makes sense now guys!

KEVIN WROTE:
The automated restore also included the glitch.
"Yeah, that is now known as the notorious fatima glitch.
No one caught it until years later when the "Christians" decided to make a big deal of it!
The whole IT dept was sacked. Now we keep 10 copies in ram, held on different planets for better security/redundancy.

Have I even mentioned how religion started? Yep, our servers were infected with the "Prince of Israel" virus, so we just ran with it. What's the worst that can happen, right!
Yep, more heads rolled....

Please keep this to yourself Jim but do you know we've restored the EarthSim you're living in at least 100 times!
(You are about 900 Years old! Can I call you Noah! BWHAAAAA. Sorry Inside joke with another glitch)

Kevin
Virtual_EarthSims_R_US.™      ® Virtual_Universes (AD4712)      ©Virtual_Universes.com(Formerly know as SKYNET)

[Amarok]

Isn't it funny that all the testimonies gathered in 1960 from people all over the world but didn't know each other, all coincided and said the same thing?
 
By the way, after the miracle in 1917, it took the Catholic Church 13 years and thousands of pages of testimonials to investigate the matter. If they were out to just scam the world to somehow draw attention or make a profit, they wouldn't have spent so long looking into it. In the end, in 1930, the Catholic Church made an official pronouncement approving of the authenticity of the miracle.

1. And isn't it more amazing that 90% of the globes populous missed said event . That even people who were there say they saw nothing . And that a suspension of celestial mechanics went completely unnoticed. Hell the effects on gravity alone would be catastrophic .


2. As for the scam argument the reason is simple they investigated as to lend credibility to they event . And letting the catholic church investigate a miracle is a bit like letting the mafia investigate a mob hit . As to wiether they investigated or just tried confirming there own bias is very much in question. As for the 13 years the benefit of having a modern miracle would far exceed any short term gain in money or fame the church might get.

[Cyberman]

If there is a God capable of such an event, then He is certainly also capable from keeping the solar system from going into chaos.

Called it!

Oh, and prophecy number 2:

OP is going to deny that reality is real, just to make his story true.

Gad, I scare myself sometimes!

But these questions don't take away from the fact that an incident certainly occurred that was beyond what any human being could do.

I couldn't put it better myself.

[chimp3]

Someone should have told Dominic Reis not to stare at the sun because it creates optical effects not optimal for walking around afterwards. With the upcoming eclipse this lesson is of major importance. I was arguing on another forum with this gullible fool and halfheartedly told him about sunlights effect on the retina and optic nerve. He actually went outside and stared at the sun. He had to admit the sun did swirl and dance around. He continued his argument unthwarted by his own experience by claiming his visual effects did not match the Fatima accounts.

 
You obviously haven't read a single testimonial that has been posted. All the testimonials agree that everyone could look straight at the sun during the miracle without it hurting their eyes. Some compared it to looking at an eclipse. No one can explain that either. Read the testimonials posted earlier.

Either the laws of physics were suspended by a sky fairy or people are fucking liars. I'll take "People are Fucking Liars"for $500 , Alex!

Word of advice : Don't believe everything you read.

[Amarok]

If there is a God capable of such an event, then He is certainly also capable from keeping the solar system from going into chaos.

Yup make up a story atop a story . And even if the universe is not in chaos . It would still have some effect upon the world . Simply saying because of magic is just ad hoc.

---

Once again . This person wants us to deny the basic fact that staring into the sun hurts ones eyes and can't be done for long. And nope even during eclipse it's dangerous and painful to stare into the sun . And it doesn't make any sense anyway .

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If there is a God capable of such an event, then He is certainly also capable from keeping the solar system from going into chaos.

Yup make up a story atop a story . And even if the universe is not in chaos . It would still have some effect upon the world . Simply saying because of magic is just ad hoc.

---

Once again . This person wants us to deny the basic fact that staring into the sun hurts ones eyes and can't be done for long. And nope even during eclipse it's dangerous and painful to stare into the sun . And it doesn't make any sense anyway .

And yes cybermans question very much take away from this so called event

[ignoramus]

Either the laws of physics were suspended by a sky fairy or people are fucking liars. I'll take "People are Fucking Liars"for $500 , Alex!

I'm noticing a trend on YouTube lately.
Many intelligent PC atheists are not calling theists liars or deluded or anything derogatory like that.
They simply say they are wrong.

I would've said "BATSHIT wrong!" but anyway...

[Amarok]

Either the laws of physics were suspended by a sky fairy or people are fucking liars. I'll take "People are Fucking Liars"for $500 , Alex!

And most of the human race some how missed it . Even people in the area . And the best the OP can say is well god would stop it.

[Cyberman]

At least CL says that the 'miracle' wasn't for anyone else, so 'obviously' they wouldn't see it. I mean it's still lame duck ad hoc rationalising, but it's creative. This guy just stops at "magic". And "WAAAAAAAHHH!"

Honestly, the quality of apologists these days...