The undeniable miracle at Fatima

[The Valkyrie]

And if you had the thousands of pages of testimonials reviewed by the Catholic Church, would that convince you? Of course not, if you don't believe the 10 pages of testimonials gathered by the author in his book I mentioned, then presenting more testimonials to you is not going to convince you any further.

The problem is that the average person is fucking DUMB, and half of them are even dumber than that.  So if you ask if it's possible to collect thousands of dumbasses together, get them convinced that something wonderful is happening, and then get them to say it was a miracle-- yeah, THAT is possible.

What's not likely, until a much better quality of evidence is shown, is ANY MIRACLE, like I'm talking a non-zero number of them, has ever happened. . . ever.

Why is it that God is so fucking camera shy, anyway?  You'd think the Lord of all Creation, the Savior of Humanity, could reveal His reality in something more convincing than the assorted collection yokel anecdotes.  Why doesn't he go do a barrel roll above Manhattan or something?

"Reviewed by the Catholic church".

This is the same Catholic church that rushed through making "Mother" Theresa a saint, despite the fact that the evil old crone did NOTHING to help people, apart from herself, and is directly responsible for some truly awful suffering.

The same Catholic church that has lied repeatedly, telling gullible people in Africa that condoms cause the spread of HIV and Aids, just to stop people using protection while having sex and helping to spread the suffering of children and adults alike?

The same Catholic church which has gone out of its way to protect priests who have molested children and think that they, not the civil authorities, should be investigating such atrocities?

[Minimalist]

Jesus walked on water!

So did Wayne Gretzky.

[KevinM1]

Jesus walked on water!

So did Wayne Gretzky.

That reminds me of the old exchange:

"Jesus saves!"
"Gretzky pokes home the rebound!"

[pabsta]

Okay, let's say for sake of argument that the people were all wrong and that the sun did NOT spin and did NOT hurl towards the earth. If we look at all the testimonials, this is what they perceived, and is the best way they chose to describe it. But let's say their description was wrong. SOMETHING obviously happened and that SOMETHING was obviously very significant or they would not have all agreed that their clothes dried instantly, nor would they have agreed that they thought it was the end of the world and that they were going to die. Nor would the newspapers have printed anything the following day.

Picture a stadium full of 70,000 people. Can you think of a way that you could freak all of them out at once and make them think it's the end of the world? I can't. So whatever it was that happened that day, it was obviously HUGE. Most people wouldn't want to admit they thought it was the end of the world, and that they were on their knees crying like a baby because they were so scared, but these people admitted that. Something HUGE freaked them all out in an instant, and whatever it was it was predicted 3 months earlier by 3 children who said a lady told them it would happen. No one would have been there to see the incident if it hadn't been for the 3 children. THIS much cannot be denied.

[KevinM1]

Criss Angel freaks out theaters and arenas on a regular basis. Just sayin'.

[Minimalist]

Okay, let's say for sake of argument that the people were all wrong and that the sun did NOT spin and did NOT hurl towards the earth.

Yes.  And leave it there.

[The Valkyrie]

Criss Angel freaks out theaters and arenas on a regular basis.  Just sayin'.

This was going to be my response.

[Joods]

Okay, let's say for sake of argument that the people were all wrong and that the sun did NOT spin and did NOT hurl towards the earth. If we look at all the testimonials, this is what they perceived, and is the best way they chose to describe it. But let's say their description was wrong. SOMETHING obviously happened and that SOMETHING was obviously very significant or they would not have all agreed that their clothes dried instantly, nor would they have agreed that they thought it was the end of the world and that they were going to die. Nor would the newspapers have printed anything the following day.

Picture a stadium full of 70,000 people. Can you think of a way that you could freak all of them out at once and make them think it's the end of the world? I can't. So whatever it was that happened that day, it was obviously HUGE. Most people wouldn't want to admit they thought it was the end of the world, and that they were on their knees crying like a baby because they were so scared, but these people admitted that. Something HUGE freaked them all out in an instant, and whatever it was it was predicted 3 months earlier by 3 children who said a lady told them it would happen. No one would have been there to see the incident if it hadn't been for the 3 children. THIS much cannot be denied.

I can deny any non-verifiable, opinion I want to. You don't get to dictate to anyone what can or cannot be denied. Especially when ALL you have to go on is the opinion of a few people who never actually scientifically tested any of what supposedly happened. What they "claim" did happen goes against laws of physics. This has been pointed out to your dull, nitwit of a brain for dozens of pages now. Get the fuck over yourself because no matter how you spin this - it's not going to make any of us here believe you. 

Furthermore - thank you for proving to me that you cannot handle debate. I have posted a number of times in this thread now - disproving your ignorant remarks about MY country and all you can manage to do is find another bullshit "miracle" to throw about. 

Aren't you tired of lying yet? I mean - it's not very christ-like for you to be doing this to a bunch of people you don't even know. Makes you look very bad. Now - repent and say 25 Hail Mary's and 50 Our Fathers and go to confessional and tell the Father of your church what you have done. You're sure to get into heaven if you do all of this but you're bound to go to hell if you don't.

[Cecelia]

Okay, let's say for sake of argument that the people were all wrong and that the sun did NOT spin and did NOT hurl towards the earth. If we look at all the testimonials, this is what they perceived, and is the best way they chose to describe it. But let's say their description was wrong. SOMETHING obviously happened and that SOMETHING was obviously very significant or they would not have all agreed that their clothes dried instantly, nor would they have agreed that they thought it was the end of the world and that they were going to die. Nor would the newspapers have printed anything the following day.

Picture a stadium full of 70,000 people. Can you think of a way that you could freak all of them out at once and make them think it's the end of the world? I can't. So whatever it was that happened that day, it was obviously HUGE. Most people wouldn't want to admit they thought it was the end of the world, and that they were on their knees crying like a baby because they were so scared, but these people admitted that. Something HUGE freaked them all out in an instant, and whatever it was it was predicted 3 months earlier by 3 children who said a lady told them it would happen. No one would have been there to see the incident if it hadn't been for the 3 children. THIS much cannot be denied.

If the Sun danced, then why did nobody else in the country see it?  Or anybody else in anywhere else in the world where it was day time?  Why only those people in that one spot?  Seems kind of odd to me that only those '70,000' people (the actual number there is likely exaggerated)  would see the sun dancing.  If you were 200 miles away, you should still be able to see it.  Because that's the thing about the sun.  You can see it pretty much everywhere.  And why is it not in the astrological record?

But you won't address this, because you can't.

Nor can you address the fact that around half of the people there said they saw nothing, and some had differing accounts of what happened.  Not to mention that it's not very miraculous in the first place.  (oh look!  the sun is dancing.  I'm sure this'll end world hunger/cause world peace/etc..")

What happened that day?  A bunch of people went to a place, expecting to see something.  Some probably saw something from the power of suggestion (and perhaps from staring at the sun too long..).  I can't say for certain what happened, because I wasn't there.  Nobody here was.  There's no pictures of the event taking place.  There's certainly no video.  We can only go by eyewitness accounts, which are at best hazy.  Remember that many people came from all over to see this event, so they were expecting to see something, though.  They were already believers.  (A lot of good this 'miracle' did, convincing people who already believed that what they believe is true).    So they were susceptible to suggestion.

[vorlon13]

Hmmm . . .


The Fatima thing is definitely Catholic. Would any of our Protestants here like to weigh in on why it's a bunch of hooey from their perspective??