This Has to Stop

[The Grand Nudger]

Sooooo taking your kid to church and teaching them about belief in Jesus and God is wishing death upon them? Wow, sounds like my parents really hated me.

They certainly didn't respect you enough to dissuade you from a fairy based world view or provide you with anything remotely resembling a factual assessment of the catholic institution or it's positions.  

Not really a dig.  I lie to my own kids all the time, too. It's superfun, and takes alot less time than providing a legitimate answer to their every question.

[Aegon]

@CL- I wouldn't be too offended about the kudos. You never know why a person might give kudos. It doesn't mean they agree with everything said in the post.

For example: I kudosed this, but I only agree with "never" "agree with" "a person". And "too"

[Thumpalumpacus]

Sooooo tsking your kid to church and teaching them about belief in Jesus and God is wishing death upon them? Wow, sounds like my parents really hated me.

Your continued false equivocation and ignoring my explanations does not make you look like you have the high ground, snookums. I didn't say I wished death upon the ones who force children who HATE sitting through religious services to do, I said those parents were ASSHOLES if they mistreated their kids like that and completely disregarded their feelings in that way. The ones who put them through cult-like shaming, fear and science-denying propaganda so that their minds are warped into the equivalent of thinking that 2 and 2 make 5, the gene pool would be better off without. Or are you saying the flock of Fred Phelps are upstanding human beings who are far better off because of what happened during their upbringing? You don't get to have it both ways.

Or what about the Amish? Beliefs they teach aside, they intentionally strip away access to modernism in virtually every way. Technology, education, everything that makes life worth living nowadays, completely cut off and isolated. In what way is that giving a child freedom of choice in any true sense? You either care about their rights or you don't. If merely institutionalizing people who force that upon them is a viable solution, I'm all for it if nature won't take care of it. The point is, like the title of the thread says, THIS HAS TO STOP. Whatever mechanism stops it will generally be preferable to the alternative. Too bad there's no karma or a just, loving god who would put things right. Kind of amazing anyone believes in something so impotent.

Honestly, when you write that you'd rather see someone run over by a bus rather than convey their religion to their kids, it's you who come across as the fundamentalist evangelist -- and more to the point, you're going to get pushback.

[Homeless Nutter]

You shouldn't say you want people killed for their beliefs by public transport vehicles - buses rarely run on time as it is.

Instead, say: people, whose behavior, or beliefs you disapprove of, deserve to be tortured for eternity in a lake of fire. None of the god-botherers will even raise an eye-brow.

[Joods]

Or what about the Amish? Beliefs they teach aside, they intentionally strip away access to modernism in virtually every way. Technology, education, everything that makes life worth living nowadays, completely cut off and isolated. 

Not true. I live within twenty minutes of the nearest Amish family and I can tell you for a fact that they absolutely accept rides from people who own cars. They eat out in restaurants and yes - some do allow their picture to be taken. While their farms might not use modern technology such as modern farm equipment and electricity, they do absoultely take advantage of modern conveniences while they are out in public. 

Saw them numerous times up at Hershey hospital when I took my oldest there for appointments to see her specialists. She stayed in the Children's hospital for 10 days after her last surgery. There were dozens of them in the family waiting room after a child fell out of a barn window. They used the microwaves and the refridgerators there as well as some of the kids played video games available for use. They do not turn away medical attention. They sell their goods and their wares to modernized people. How else do you think they make money necessary to pay their property taxes and the like? Did you honestly think that they were so far removed from society that they were somehow hidden, exempt from actually dealing with the public? When an Amish kid turns 18, they are given the opportunity to spend time in the real world, exposed to everything thing we have access to today, for a period of one year. They either come back to their community at age 19 or they opt out. If they opt out, they are never allowed to return to their community. Ever. But to say that they aren't ever exposed to modern conveniences is just a flat out lie.

Also - The Amish are frequently in the news papers as well and they all aren't "innocent" God-fearing people either. Just a few years back, a few Lancaster county Amish boys got busted for selling marajuana out of their buggy. Completely cut off and isolated, my ass. Do some research on a subject before you speak about it.

[Losty]

It really depends on the people. Some Amish people are strictly no technology. Some people up the road from me as a child let their barn burn down because they wouldn't call a fire truck. Then you have Mennonites who are like Amish lite. When I was a kid almost all of the people where I lived were Amish. We bought most of our food from them.

[Joods]

Your continued false equivocation and ignoring my explanations does not make you look like you have the high ground, snookums. I didn't say I wished death upon the ones who force children who HATE sitting through religious services to do, I said those parents were ASSHOLES if they mistreated their kids like that and completely disregarded their feelings in that way. The ones who put them through cult-like shaming, fear and science-denying propaganda so that their minds are warped into the equivalent of thinking that 2 and 2 make 5, the gene pool would be better off without. Or are you saying the flock of Fred Phelps are upstanding human beings who are far better off because of what happened during their upbringing? You don't get to have it both ways.

Or what about the Amish? Beliefs they teach aside, they intentionally strip away access to modernism in virtually every way. Technology, education, everything that makes life worth living nowadays, completely cut off and isolated. In what way is that giving a child freedom of choice in any true sense? You either care about their rights or you don't. If merely institutionalizing people who force that upon them is a viable solution, I'm all for it if nature won't take care of it. The point is, like the title of the thread says, THIS HAS TO STOP. Whatever mechanism stops it will generally be preferable to the alternative. Too bad there's no karma or a just, loving god who would put things right. Kind of amazing anyone believes in something so impotent.

Honestly, when you write that you'd rather see someone run over by a bus rather than convey their religion to their kids, it's you who come across as the fundamentalist evangelist -- and more to the point, you're going to get pushback.

This. And isn't there something in the rules on this forum about threats on one's life? Honestly, that first OP was oozing with hate and if a person couldn't feel  that by reading it, then they have no empathy. To wish death on a theist (or anyone, really), makes the atheist in question no better than the Abrahamic god for committing the first Genocide ever. Stooping to that level of low doesn't make a person better than an imaginary god, in my view.

---

It really depends on the people. Some Amish people are strictly no technology. Some people up the road from me as a child let their barn burn down because they wouldn't call a fire truck. Then you have Mennonites who are like Amish lite. When I was a kid almost all of the people where I lived were Amish. We bought most of our food from them.

Agreed, but that's not what Astonished was saying. He was making the outright claim, by once again, lumping an entire group of people, by saying they are all cut off from the rest of society and that just isn't true.

[Harry Nevis]

It really depends on the people. Some Amish people are strictly no technology. Some people up the road from me as a child let their barn burn down because they wouldn't call a fire truck. Then you have Mennonites who are like Amish lite. When I was a kid almost all of the people where I lived were Amish. We bought most of our food from them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Electric_Amish

They're a hoot.

[Joods]

Sooooo taking your kid to church and teaching them about belief in Jesus and God is wishing death upon them? Wow, sounds like my parents really hated me.

They certainly didn't respect you enough to dissuade you from a fairy based world view or provide you with anything remotely resembling a factual assessment of the catholic institution or it's positions.  

Not really a dig.  I lie to my own kids all the time, too.  It's superfun, and takes alot less time than providing a legitimate answer to their every question.

You should do what I do and require them to think about their question before asking it. They should ask themselves if the question they want to ask, is going to cause parental brainhurt in some sort of way. If the answer is yes - they shouldn't ask it.

[The Grand Nudger]

Or what about the Amish? Beliefs they teach aside, they intentionally strip away access to modernism in virtually every way. Technology, education, everything that makes life worth living nowadays, completely cut off and isolated. 

Not true. I live within twenty minutes of the nearest Amish family and I can tell you for a fact that they absolutely accept rides from people who own cars. They eat out in restaurants and yes - some do allow their picture to be taken. While their farms might not use modern technology such as modern farm equipment and electricity, they do absoultely take advantage of modern conveniences while they are out in public. 

Saw them numerous times up at Hershey hospital when I took my oldest there for appointments to see her specialists. She stayed in the Children's hospital for 10 days after her last surgery. There were dozens of them in the family waiting room after a child fell out of a barn window. They used the microwaves and the refridgerators there as well as some of the kids played video games available for use. They do not turn away medical attention. They sell their goods and their wares to modernized people. How else do you think they make money necessary to pay their property taxes and the like? Did you honestly think that they were so far removed from society that they were somehow hidden, exempt from actually dealing with the public? When an Amish kid turns 18, they are given the opportunity to spend time in the real world, exposed to everything thing we have access to today, for a period of one year. They either come back to their community at age 19 or they opt out. If they opt out, they are never allowed to return to their community. Ever. But to say that they aren't ever exposed to modern conveniences is just a flat out lie.

Also - The Amish are frequently in the news papers as well and they all aren't "innocent" God-fearing people either. Just a few years back, a few Lancaster county Amish boys got busted for selling marajuana out of their buggy. Completely cut off and isolated, my ass. Do some research on a subject before you speak about it.

They also contract the non-amish owners of heavy equipment and modern diagnostic services.......in order to run their thoroughly modern growing operations.  

Their "amishness" has become a part of the branding of their products which isn't necessarily fraudulent, but which they are very willing to perpetuate by innocent omission of the actual particulars of their lives and business. I run a local "amish" farms IPM. A great deal of modern technology is involved in this, and ofc it would be...alot of money is on the line. So long as they have no personal interaction or involvement with it, it satisfies any legalistic challenge to their ideology...and frankly this is how the amish have -always- done business.

I wonder, sometimes...if anyone ever wonders why amish produce is not uniformly classified as organic..........if people imagine that the amish owners of a for market operation..for some reason, either failed to recognize or failed to secure a profitable designation for the products whose sale is the generator of cash upon which their lives depend.

No, they don't get the cert because they aren't organic. They have their fields sprayed. Boom sprayers are pulled by tractors up and down the row on a regimented schedule. They then sell the product as a sort of side-grade. It costs a smidge more because it's amish. That pays the note on the 300m. I wish I had a 300m.

All of this refers only to those amish producers who -don't- lease the majority of their arable land to factory farms.

-While the ritual community of the amish is profound and profoundly different, they aren't so fucking stupid and backwards as to drive themselves into bankruptcy over it. In order to support that ritual community, they have to be competitive.