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RE: Social Functions
August 21, 2011 at 7:00 pm
Ah the chains of obligation Shell..lol.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Social Functions
August 22, 2011 at 6:17 am
(This post was last modified: August 22, 2011 at 6:38 am by Godnose.)
(August 21, 2011 at 6:19 pm)Ace Otana Wrote: (August 21, 2011 at 5:01 pm)Godnose Wrote: Sorry - changed my mind.
Terrible habit you have there.
Yeah I know. Bad habits have plagued my life. Like the booze and fags (cigorettes) I mentioned before. And god woops goodness knows what before them (acid, hash, speed - the usual mis-spent yoof of the average baby boomer). Now it appears to be cantankerousness and changing me mind all the time. Deffo I shall end up a lonely sad old git if I don't mend my ways. But I'm gonna (try and) give it a real shot... to change my ways. here that is. Not generally. Why should I? But on this site, gonna try to be good. Woops - just made an edit there - now this one. Gawd 'elp us.
(August 21, 2011 at 4:54 pm)Tiberius Wrote: ... you could argue that practically everything is "free at the point of use". Paying for something and using it are usually different events.
You could but you'd be wrong. In the UK anyway it's a virtually (possibly "actually") official phrase used to describe how things like the Beeb and NHS are used vs how they are financed.
I understand that's a pretty alien concept in certain places - eg USA, where they made such a fuss about Obama's dipping his toes into a kinda similar system for health service provision. But here its a pretty standard idea. Don't worry though, nothing to do with communism or anything nasty like that.
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RE: Social Functions
August 22, 2011 at 6:47 am
I live in the UK; I understand the phrase, but it's one of those which makes little actual sense. Like I said before, almost everything is "free at the point of use". It doesn't mean someone hasn't paid money for it at some point. Some examples:
I walk into a shop, and buy a chocolate bar. I then proceed to eat the chocolate bar. The act of eating the chocolate bar is free, so the chocolate bar is "free at the point of use".
I fill up my car with petrol, then pay for it at the till. I then proceed to drive 100 miles in the car. The act of driving the car is free, so petrol is "free at the point of use".
Get my drift? People start labeling things as "free" when they clearly aren't. The NHS isn't "free" in any sense, unless you are not paying taxes. Same applies for all public and private services. The phrase "free at the point of use" is just a bullshit slogan used by politicians who know that most people will simply hear the word "free" and won't care about who has to pay for it.
A similar thing happened at the student protests earlier this year. Lots of students were campaigning for "free education" and wondering why the rest of the country was holding such an idea as absurd. Well, it's because the rest of the country (i.e. all the working people) would have had to pay for their "free" education through taxes.
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RE: Social Functions
August 22, 2011 at 7:11 am
(This post was last modified: August 22, 2011 at 7:28 am by Godnose.)
(August 21, 2011 at 5:00 pm)Shell B Wrote: (August 21, 2011 at 4:35 pm)Godnose Wrote: Whenever I start a new topic, I genuinely do intend it to be a proper discussion - in fact that's the whole proper reason what I came to this site for.
Prove it.
I'm telling you.
It's impossible to prove it. I can only try my best, and if that ain't good enough, so be it. But I shall keep trying until I ... stop.
Even then, I might start again... if you're lucky
Quote:Just because the support you get doesn't come from atheists does not mean that atheists do not provide the same support.
Can't find any round here (I mean where I live - not referring to the forum)
Quote:The question you posed is whether there is something religion provides that secularists do not and the answer is no.
I disagree, that's not "the" answer, it is "an" answer (yours). There may well be others, as it's a matter of opinion.
Quote: ...You came in here (apparently) with the idea that atheists are assholes ...
Well, that is incorrect, as far as this forum is concerned (although I have experienced similar weirdness from atheists previously in the "real" world). It is an opinion that developed as I was here, and only regarding particular atheists, not atheists in general. Furthermore, it is as yet only a fledgeling opinion, as I do recognize (really) that I am a particularly cantankerous git - always have been.
Quote:...
(August 21, 2011 at 4:35 pm)Godnose Wrote: They seem to think if you aint been to university or can't talk in some kind of clever speak then you got no right to be an atheist - but still not allowed to be religious of course.
That is an incorrect assessment.
Well that's how it feels. If I get the wrong impression I'm sorry about that. It's probably partly inter-cultural perception - different rules apply in different countries. Basically, I can only ask you to take it on trust that I don't mean bad, and I guess I also have to work harder at believing you lot don't either. If I'm going to hang around that is.
Quote: (August 21, 2011 at 4:35 pm)Godnose Wrote: instead of doing your best to put people like me down all the time you should be bending over backwards to welcome us into the rarified air of your blooming company. Cos its only when the ordinary folks change that any real social change can take on.
We are ordinary folk. That being said, speaking for myself, bending over backwards isn't my style. It is up to you to be able to handle social situations.
Yeah. I've always been crap at them. I was the kid always left over when they picked the teams. Boo hoo! 
(and I wasn't even fat or particularly spotty or anything)
Quote:I'll not hold your hand.
Rejected again!
(August 22, 2011 at 6:47 am)Tiberius Wrote: I live in the UK; I understand the phrase, but it's one of those which makes little actual sense. Like I said before ...
...
... taxes.
Yeah, I got it already. I don't mean to seem offensive, but it seems a bit nit-picky to me. You knew what I meant, so why not simply accept it on that basis? [that question's a rhetorical one, BTW - I mean, I realise you almost certainly realised that. However, I'm finding it increasingly difficult to figure out precisely which I's and T's require dotting and crossing...]
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RE: Social Functions
August 22, 2011 at 2:09 pm
(August 22, 2011 at 7:11 am)Godnose Wrote: I disagree, that's not "the" answer, it is "an" answer (yours). There may well be others, as it's a matter of opinion.
No, your question is not a matter of opinion. You have yet to show something that the church provides that secularists do not provide in a different setting.
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RE: Social Functions
August 22, 2011 at 2:45 pm
(August 22, 2011 at 2:09 pm)Shell B Wrote: (August 22, 2011 at 7:11 am)Godnose Wrote: I disagree, that's not "the" answer, it is "an" answer (yours). There may well be others, as it's a matter of opinion.
No, your question is not a matter of opinion. You have yet to show something that the church provides that secularists do not provide in a different setting.
My original post was:
Quote:Are there any social functions currently provided by religion which are not provided on a secular basis?
If so what are they and how may the situation be remedied?
I don't understand why I "have to show" anything. I am not making a point or presenting an argument, I am asking a question. Well, two questions I guess, a primary one (I suppose) and what would you call it? A "contingent" one?
& I reckon there's plenty of room for opinion in both those questions.
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RE: Social Functions
August 22, 2011 at 2:51 pm
(August 22, 2011 at 2:45 pm)Godnose Wrote: I don't understand why I "have to show" anything. I am not making a point or presenting an argument, I am asking a question. Well, two questions I guess, a primary one (I suppose) and what would you call it? A "contingent" one?
Of course you don't have to show anything, but if you are going to assert it is a matter of opinion, it would help if you showed exactly how it is a matter of opinion or showed that there was something on the other side of the coin.
(August 22, 2011 at 2:45 pm)Godnose Wrote: & I reckon there's plenty of room for opinion in both those questions.
Sure, people can have opinions about it, but facts are facts. Name a bunch of things that the church provides to society as a whole and I will name ways people do it without the church. There is no room for opinion there.
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RE: Social Functions
August 22, 2011 at 4:23 pm
(August 20, 2011 at 8:53 pm)Godnose Wrote: I need to get off this fucking site. I concur. A pity you're trolling us again as opposed to making a sensible statement.
Quote:Please ban me again and this time do it properly, so I can't get back.
Perhaps you'll be more creative and call yourself 'Godknob' next time?
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RE: Social Functions
August 22, 2011 at 8:12 pm
(This post was last modified: August 22, 2011 at 8:12 pm by Godnose.)
(August 22, 2011 at 4:23 pm)Welsh cake Wrote: Perhaps you'll be more creative and call yourself 'Godknob' next time?
Although shouldn't that be Godnob? I'm pretty sure that's how it would be spelt. Anyway, not for me. I might try T... ... nope, can't do it!! Not nice!
That's my trouble. Too soft!
(Which is particularly crap if you're a nob)
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RE: Social Functions
August 22, 2011 at 9:04 pm
You blundered when you suggested that atheists would need something akin to a church to help deal with ghosts and spiritual matters.
Trying to update my sig ...
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