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(December 23, 2017 at 2:44 pm)snowtracks Wrote: No fire is correct. Before physical death, everyone chooses whether they want separation or connection for their eternal abode.
Why would anyone choose separation?
Are they of their father, the devil? In that case, did they have a choice?
Are they one of the seeds that fell among the weeds and was choked? In that case, did they have a choice?
Are they one who found their name was not written in the lamb's book of life? In that case, did they have a choice?
If we can't make one hair white or black, then what choice do we have?
Quote:Angels and humans have an additional component over and above other living creatures, the made in the image-of-God 'Spirit' which gives eternal existence and free-will.
What constitutes human? IQ? DNA? Are mentally challenged people human? Are psychopaths? Where is the line drawn between human and animal? And why is that not an arbitrary place to draw the line?
Quote:God places a high value on freedom. He rather have free-will and evil, then no free-will and no evil.
(December 23, 2017 at 2:44 pm)snowtracks Wrote: No fire is correct. Before physical death, everyone chooses whether they want separation or connection for their eternal abode.
Why would anyone choose separation?
Are they of their father, the devil? In that case, did they have a choice?
Are they one of the seeds that fell among the weeds and was choked? In that case, did they have a choice?
Are they one who found their name was not written in the lamb's book of life? In that case, did they have a choice?
If we can't make one hair white or black, then what choice do we have?
Quote:Angels and humans have an additional component over and above other living creatures, the made in the image-of-God 'Spirit' which gives eternal existence and free-will.
What constitutes human? IQ? DNA? Are mentally challenged people human? Are psychopaths? Where is the line drawn between human and animal? And why is that not an arbitrary place to draw the line?
Quote:God places a high value on freedom. He rather have free-will and evil, then no free-will and no evil.
Don't you know that the fallen nature is enmity with God and will try to protect itself; aka, wrapping the nature with a veneer of intellectualism or other means since it knows that it's held accountable by the moral ruler of the universe?
Atheist Credo: A universe by chance that also just happened to admit the observer by chance.
(January 5, 2018 at 10:24 am)Agnosty Wrote: Why would anyone choose separation?
Are they of their father, the devil? In that case, did they have a choice?
Are they one of the seeds that fell among the weeds and was choked? In that case, did they have a choice?
Are they one who found their name was not written in the lamb's book of life? In that case, did they have a choice?
If we can't make one hair white or black, then what choice do we have?
What constitutes human? IQ? DNA? Are mentally challenged people human? Are psychopaths? Where is the line drawn between human and animal? And why is that not an arbitrary place to draw the line?
Don't you know that the fallen nature is enmity with God and will try to protect itself; aka, wrapping the nature with a veneer of intellectualism or other means since it knows that it's held accountable by the moral ruler of the universe?
I know you claim that, but I don't know it.
The fall of man was intellectualism, but the beaver is smart too in building dams, so what constitutes intellectualism is arbitrary, and chimps will gangup to attack a relatively helpless member of their society in the most brutal fashion imaginable (ripping off the testicles and biting off all the fingers) and so where is god's judgement of that? It would seem, therefore, that all of nature is at enmity with god because all of it fails the test of righteousness in one form or another.
God destroyed the earthlings once in a flood, but for some reason decided to drag along a copy of all his failed creations only for the earth to be repopulated in the same disappointing fashion. It seems to me that god wants to complain about his struggles to create beings able live up to his unrealistic and impossible expectations. Either that, or we don't live up to our own expectations and create god for the institutionalization of guilt.
I'm not saying there is no god, but just that I don't think god would operate in that fashion. It makes no sense and I have no persuading evidence other than someone says so.
(January 5, 2018 at 10:24 am)Agnosty Wrote: Why would anyone choose separation?
Are they of their father, the devil? In that case, did they have a choice?
Are they one of the seeds that fell among the weeds and was choked? In that case, did they have a choice?
Are they one who found their name was not written in the lamb's book of life? In that case, did they have a choice?
If we can't make one hair white or black, then what choice do we have?
What constitutes human? IQ? DNA? Are mentally challenged people human? Are psychopaths? Where is the line drawn between human and animal? And why is that not an arbitrary place to draw the line?
Don't you know that the fallen nature is enmity with God and will try to protect itself; aka, wrapping the nature with a veneer of intellectualism or other means since it knows that it's held accountable by the moral ruler of the universe?
Is THE moral ruler of The universe also iTS creator, all powerful and all knowing?
"If we go down, we go down together!" - Your mum, last night, suggesting 69. -
January 7, 2018 at 10:21 am (This post was last modified: January 7, 2018 at 10:21 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(January 6, 2018 at 4:23 pm)snowtracks Wrote: Don't you know that the fallen nature is enmity with God and will try to protect itself; aka, wrapping the nature with a veneer of intellectualism or other means since it knows that it's held accountable by the moral ruler of the universe?
"All you smert assholes are gonna go to HELL!"
Yes, we know, we know..we've heard the stories.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(January 6, 2018 at 4:23 pm)snowtracks Wrote: Don't you know that the fallen nature is enmity with God and will try to protect itself; aka, wrapping the nature with a veneer of intellectualism or other means since it knows that it's held accountable by the moral ruler of the universe?
"All you smert assholes are gonna go to HELL!"
Yes, we know, we know..we've heard the stories.
He could have been pushing for the global white supremacy if he wasn't in religion.
(November 21, 2017 at 3:48 pm)purplepurpose Wrote: Eternal punishment for temporary crimes and eternal heaven for temporary work? It sounds unnatural. And yet people preach it like it's perfect God's word.
It seems odd to me, that you think there should be a correlation in the time between one and the other. That judges should base sentences on the amount of time a crime took. Is this what you are saying?
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
January 7, 2018 at 2:56 pm (This post was last modified: January 7, 2018 at 3:18 pm by purplepurpose.)
(January 7, 2018 at 2:53 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote:
(November 21, 2017 at 3:48 pm)purplepurpose Wrote: Eternal punishment for temporary crimes and eternal heaven for temporary work? It sounds unnatural. And yet people preach it like it's perfect God's word.
It seems odd to me, that you think there should be a correlation in the time between one and the other. That judges should base sentences on the amount of time a crime took. Is this what you are saying?
January 7, 2018 at 3:30 pm (This post was last modified: January 7, 2018 at 4:02 pm by RoadRunner79.)
(January 7, 2018 at 2:56 pm)purplepurpose Wrote:
(January 7, 2018 at 2:53 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: It seems odd to me, that you think there should be a correlation in the time between one and the other. That judges should base sentences on the amount of time a crime took. Is this what you are saying?
Temporary activity can get temporary results. Eternal results sounds retarded.
If it sounds or feels wrong, that may be reason for further examination, but I don't think that it should forego reason.
In the first example, you seemed to be making a correlation between duration of the action and the duration of the results. I don't think this follows. I could spend weeks or months , expending considerable time and effort, in order to embezzle $50 from my company. And yet someone could be shot and killed in a fraction of a second. Do you think that it makes sense to have a correlation between the duration of punishment here (The long duration of stealing $50 dollars would result in a longer punishment than the relatively shorter duration of killing a person?)
This iteration is a little simpler; however I don't think that it follows either. From my experience, a large majority of atheists believe that there is an unending nothingness when one dies. (I would point out that this is an assumption by the way) But yet again, in the example above of a person being shot and killed in a very short period of time, results in an eternal consequence.
So while it may sound to you to be wrong, I don't think that this has any reason backing it, and when you follow it's principles, leads to even more preposterous conclusions.
I don't see any reason why this should be a concern.
(January 6, 2018 at 4:23 pm)snowtracks Wrote: Don't you know that the fallen nature is enmity with God and will try to protect itself; aka, wrapping the nature with a veneer of intellectualism or other means since it knows that it's held accountable by the moral ruler of the universe?
Is THE moral ruler of The universe also iTS creator, all powerful and all knowing?
Immense power, would be all powerful if not limited by his (God's) nature, and that's a good thing. , The idea of human uniqueness is grounded in the biblical truth that people are made in the image of God (Imago Dei),; this is the reason people feel a moral pull to do what is right and good.
Atheist Credo: A universe by chance that also just happened to admit the observer by chance.
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