Why some humans are so evil: double standards and irreligion

[FatAndFaithless]

But those old bad times you reference..those only changed because people weren't bound by their circumstance.  Obviously people saw the things wrong in their current time, current society, so they changed them.  The world keeps getting better and better overall (there's always going to be dips, of course), but people always think it's getting worse and worse.

We aren't just bound by a chance of being born in this time and place.  People have agency and ability to break from whatever the norm is.  And in general, most people most of the time use that agency to improve things.

But what kept us from being bound by our circumstances?  Stuff.  The reason we're so progressive now, is we all have bunch of stuff.  House, food, security, etc...  And more importantly, there's enough stuff for us to have a bunch of it, and all of our neighbors to have a bunch of it.  The circumstances are we've evolved to not need to own slaves.  Or steal the neighbors sheep.  Or kill the rival tribe.  We want to sit on our couches and watch Netflix.  Our motivations change with our standard of living.  

If the North had still needed slavery, there wouldn't have been a civil war.  It wasn't a crisis of conscience, it was just that they could get what they wanted without slavery, so they stopped with the slavery.  And I'd guess it was also some power play by the North as it relates to their relationship with the South as well.  I don't think people get better.  There is just less incentive to be 'evil.'

Or...the increase in quality of life ("stuff") for most people is a result of people trying to make the world better, not the driver. Or both. Do you really think people are neanderthal morally-vacuous animals that would be out raping and killing if we didn't have our current society in place? That's...a really dark and frankly unsupported view. Shit was bad in the past. It's going to be just by definition, because as years go on, things get better and better for more and more people.

I guess I just have more faith in humanity than you.  I'm proud to be a member of the human race.  We're pretty much good folks.

[The Grand Nudger]

I'm not a terrorist because I fear a lord. Fear a day of judgement.

That has to be one of the scariest shit someone can say.

IKR, what happens if he loses his fath?  Or, more likely, when he becomes even more faithful and starts thinking allah told him to go boom?

That or, you know, he's just completely unaware of self in this regard, like most of us are about at least one or two things.  That this is not the reason he;s not a terrorist, and in fact has nothing at all to do with that.

[brewer]

Evil? I'm told I was born that way.

[purplepurpose]

You gotta give credit to believers, they fuck their mind in to oblivion with worlds trash news to justify their acceptance of hell, besides other things.

..Do you plan on adding to the conversation at all?

It's one of the most depressing topics there is. About people who are born in hell on earth and can become just as fucked up as their surroundings. 

I don't care about such think, as it's pointless.

[henryp]

Or...the increase in quality of life ("stuff") for most people is a result of people trying to make the world better, not the driver.  Or both.  Do you really think people are neanderthal morally-vacuous animals that would be out raping and killing if we didn't have our current society in place?  That's...a really dark and frankly unsupported view.  Shit was bad in the past.  It's going to be just by definition, because as years go on, things get better and better for more and more people.

I guess I just have more faith in humanity than you.  I'm proud to be a member of the human race.  We're pretty much good folks.

How do women fare on the rape front in 3rd world countries?  30%+ people in Uganda had Aids in the 80's, cause they were just rolling through villages raping everybody.  That's what humans look like without stuff and consequences.  We were talking about Haiti, a 2006 UN report said half of the women living in the Port au Prince slums had been raped. 

There's still plenty of child sex trafficking going on in undeveloped countries.  Once you take away our 1st world society, things are just as awful as they've ever been.  What's more likely the exception?  You and me in 1st world countries for the last 30-50 years?  Or everybody for 199,000 years, and plenty of people in modern times.

If you're looking for the thing that separates us, it's stuff.

[FatAndFaithless]

Or...the increase in quality of life ("stuff") for most people is a result of people trying to make the world better, not the driver.  Or both.  Do you really think people are neanderthal morally-vacuous animals that would be out raping and killing if we didn't have our current society in place?  That's...a really dark and frankly unsupported view.  Shit was bad in the past.  It's going to be just by definition, because as years go on, things get better and better for more and more people.

I guess I just have more faith in humanity than you.  I'm proud to be a member of the human race.  We're pretty much good folks.

How do women fare on the rape front in 3rd world countries?  30%+ people in Uganda had Aids in the 80's, cause they were just rolling through villages raping everybody.  That's what humans look like without stuff and consequences.  We were talking about Haiti, a 2006 UN report said half of the women living in the Port au Prince slums had been raped. 

There's still plenty of child sex trafficking going on in undeveloped countries.  Once you take away our 1st world society, things are just as awful as they've ever been.  What's more likely the exception?  You and me in 1st world countries for the last 30-50 years?  Or everybody for 199,000 years, and plenty of people in modern times.

If you're looking for the thing that separates us, it's stuff.

Well I'm glad as hell you live a comfortable life then, if that's what you think of people.

[Catholic_Lady]

Wally makes a good point, to be honest. I'll have to think about that. I still do believe people for the most part have an inherent desire for goodness though.

[FatAndFaithless]

I certainly think that people can be heavily influenced by their circumstances. The examples he gives sure illustrate that. I just don't think we're defined by them. Otherwise literally nothing would have ever changed for the better. There would be no hope for progress or improvement or advancement. And I think we can all agree that humanity has advanced since the first step of our species.

[Catholic_Lady]

Wally, maybe it's the other way around? Instead of the default being that we are all bad except for if we have stuff, the default is actually to be good unless we were raised in extreme circumstances to be bad. Maybe these people who were born and raised in a broken society act that way because that's how they were treated and that's what they know, but the default would really have been to act like decent people?

I still stand by what I said that sometimes people really are just bad, no explanation. But I think when it comes to the overwhelming crimes against humanity in the broken parts of the world, most cases really are a matter of them just having been brought up that way.

I don't know... just kinda throwing my thoughts out there. You raise some interesting points.

[The Grand Nudger]

Not for nothing...but witch doctors told them that screwing a virgin would heal them...and some african ministers of health famously peddled garlic, officially, as a cure.

It may be that some people™ are just bad™, but they would have to make up a vanishingly small percentage of people.