The Lie Known as "Salvation"

[Haipule]

Whateverist: you know that I love you and I am not alone! But please! God is NOT nature and, nature is NOT God!--never has been and, never will be! Yet, nature reflects God!

As Paul said: "You will know God by the things that He has made!"

I'm glad you're back from Margaritaville, man! We were lost without you.

The issue I take with your quotation of Paul here is that (assuming God exists) his followers seem to ignore Paul's advice--ironically focusing to much on Paul's letters whilst ignoring this little tidbit of wisdom embedded in the letters themselves.

I think Khem hits the nail on the head when he says "magic book worshippers." I've talked to tons of Christians (online and in RL) and, aside from a few exceptions, most of them worship a book and are utterly clueless about how one might know God outside it.

I think it is important too. They have been reinventing Paul words for centuries and also, made him out to be a sexist prick!

The bible, honoring it's autographed language, is just about life and breathing. Man invented religion and religiosities, ideals, idealism. Theology, which should be the science of God, is now the showcase of man's goofy ideas which causes nothing but arguments because they are all insanely stupid and opinionated as you well know. 

Just ask 10 Christians about the how of "salvation" and the fur will fly! Grace, works, both, repentance, prayer, magic words, speaking in tongues, blah, blah, blah, etc, etc, etc, all invented by their Grand Poobah theologians whom actually went to college to be that stupid and repeat the 2,000yrs of "Polly what a cracker?" that they learned in seminary so that they can pass a stupid ordination test given by man which is ok because they are "spiritual" and "Divinely" being directed. I think I'm going to barf!

It is hilariously stupid, and sad, that a lot of what is taught today as "truth", was born from the anti-Semitic "Church Fathers" trying to clobber the Jews and their faith! Now, how freakin' stupid is that?! Just to defend their own faith and torture and murder followed! See how "godly" the are? 8gag8

Jesus said, "The first shall be last and the last, first". I am most certainly NOT apart of that "first" and their 2,000yrs of complete nonsense!

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How about using the "hide" feature on crap like Post #33?

 I would love to--how?

[Haipule]

You are assuming the lie that God is, somehow, omni everything. The bible does not indicate that God is "Omni" anything!

People often ask, "Why do bad things happen to good people"? It is a stupid question because Jesus said, "Why do you call me 'good'? 'Only my Father in the sky(authoritative position) is good'".

So, they will have a tough time explaining what "good" means.

Jesus also said, "When did I know you?". If He said that He does not know them: then how is He omni?

Therefore, as the bible plainly states, "God knows the ones whom are His! Therefore, He doesn't know the rest! So, whatever happens to them is the product of worldly thinking! NOT God!

Do you want a different God? There ain't one!

So why do you believe in Yahweh, the God of the Hebrews and the God of the armies?  Are you a Hebrew?

No, I am not Hebrew. Yet, I most certainly trust "Yahweh" "The Lord of Hosts" Who has been Jesus(Yeshua--Joshua) since His birth. You see, the elohim, the YHWY of the Jews, the Emanuel, was born in Bethlehem as a man! And as a man, like you, NEVER existed before His birth in any other form! 


Thee God has always existed but never as a man and the Man never existed before His birth(dispelling Trinity nonsense here)! Thee God took it upon Himself to become a man to perform reconciliation(demanded ransom payment paid in full because man was held in bondage by death which goes back to the parabasis(motion against a fixed point or, standard) of Adam which put man in bondage, held as hostage to death until Moses and the animal offerings which but this affair aside till a later date) which required His death!

Don't worry: He was raised because of our subsequent rightification!


Because of theologies, I can't show that to a Jew, or a Christian. What does that make me? Crazy?

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If you need the idea of a god to feel happy, I'm sorry that's the case, but go for it.  I don't think that your interpretation fits with the actual texts, but since it's all fictional, what does it matter?  Your god sounds like one of those creepy MLM front-men...follow these simple steps and soon you'll have the vacation homes and private jets.  Appeal to greed and the desire to get good stuff without earning it: it's an effective con, sure.   

Doesn't incline me to believe, trust, or sell the vitamins.

Actually, I do belong to the black letter version of AARP which is the American Association of Rich People! As long as us rich get richer: I'm all for it! Thank God for Trump right? I'm being silly.

The Language of the Newer Covenants is KoinE Greek. Way back when, long before Jesus, a man named Alexander the Great conquered the world and had a famous dude named Aristotle in tow.

Alexander demanded that the conquered lands surrender to him only in his language which was Attic Greek. Attic Greek itself, is a dialect of the Classical Greek.

The reason he demand them to surrender in his language is because his language is so precise, that it has no wiggle room or room for "interpretation". After a time, and Alexander, that language degraded into local area dialects called--KoinE. The KoinE of the NT is the Jerusalem area dialect and retains no wiggle room or room for interpretation.

As long as you honor the language in it's simple to understand highly inflected autographed form: it is impossible to interpret! Therefore, all interpretations are a result of NOT honoring the text and to instead, manipulate it! ALL theology is a manipulation of the text! That's why I look at theology like a brick looks at a stained glass window!

[Angrboda]

The Language of the Newer Covenants is KoinE Greek. Way back when, long before Jesus, a man named Alexander the Great conquered the world and had a famous dude named Aristotle in tow.

Alexander demanded that the conquered lands surrender to him only in his language which was Attic Greek. Attic Greek itself, is a dialect of the Classical Greek.

The reason he demand them to surrender in his language is because his language is so precise, that it has no wiggle room or room for "interpretation".  After a time, and Alexander, that language degraded into local area dialects called--KoinE. The KoinE of the NT is the Jerusalem area dialect and retains no wiggle room or room for interpretation.

As long as you honor the language in it's simple to understand highly inflected autographed form: it is impossible to interpret! Therefore, all interpretations are a result of NOT honoring the text and to instead, manipulate it! ALL theology is a manipulation of the text! That's why I look at theology like a brick looks at a stained glass window!

Oh bollocks.

[vulcanlogician]

How about using the "hide" feature on crap like Post #33?

 I would love to--how?

Code:

[hide]The stuff you want to hide[/hide]

[Drich]

You can point to me 1 lexicon. However, I use 6.

Can I? yes The strong's the Vine's, the blue letter, The wyckliffe, bullwingers is a good one. can you name six?

I take them all down to my basement and torcher them!

Because I want the truth! I want the most simplest understanding of a word, within it's broader and immediate context, with the framework of the grammatical inflection actually penned by the author. So that I can simply understand those words as the illiterate fisherman and farmer did--and kick some ass as they did!

which is foolishness unless you have a historical and social structure along with a strong knowledge of the literate culture verses everyone else.

To assume you can accurately source all of these other materials, and reference the right combination of materials to go with your simple understanding, your simple word would be too simple to give an accurate meaning. Rather you could give that dead language word text or phrase any meaning that you wish. If not held to am imperial standard.

Which is why I suspect you've thrown out your lexicons, so as to not be held to any real standard, and you can make up any crap you like.

What is hard, beyond hard/next to impossible is to make up a doctrine based in the koine that is held to the standards of the fore mentioned lexicons.Unless that is... that doctrine is based in good olde fashion 100% truth.

All Greek words are a root with alphabet soup, prefixed, or suffixed. If you don't know the "alphabet soup", you don't know jack of what you are talking about!

I got 20+ years making soup sport, and the fact that you are calling the language of the bible Greek means you are trying to BS you way through this. ANYONE who has any time studying this language 1 knows it is dead. tis is not the Greek spoken now, and as such need to be further identified. it has been as this version of the Greek langage is refered to as Koine greek (prounounced koi-ney greek. meaning common greek which was spoken commonly from about the 4th to the 6th century.) So why was it the written language of the bible? 1 arimaic was not an offical language it would be like ebonics or creole. and the koine greek would be the official written language everything in that time period was recorded in.

Now because this language 'died' after the 6th century is the reason we need lexicons. lexicons being like dictionaries but take into account regional social andlitary verses practical usages of a word. in addition to the words transcribed meaning/translated meaning. Why do we need all of this? because you can not account for all the social changes that a word can under go just by taking the dictionary defination of a word.

So to disqualify a lexicon is to disqualify yourself as an intellectually honest person. rather you seek to remove source material that would prohibit you from changing the meanings of these words.

One of the first words you used is "spiritual". Make me puke! That word is the adjective form of pneuma which is pneumatikos. pneuma can refer to living breath or, the intellect breathed into you from an exterior source.


The English word transliterated from pneuma, as an adjective is pneumatic, and can refer to anything such as a hammer, or drill; that works from compressed air, or gas!

but what does the word SPIRITUAL IN THE ENGLISH MEAN???? Does it mean hammer or drill? So why translate my word to the greek which gives you a prefix then take the prefix and apply it to what i said to change the meaning???? are you seriously this broken?

In the english Spiritual means
spir·it·u·al
ˈspiriCH(o͞o)əl/Submit
adjective
1.
relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.
"I'm responsible for his spiritual welfare"
synonyms: nonmaterial, incorporeal, intangible; More
2.
relating to religion or religious belief.
"the tribe's spiritual leader"
synonyms: religious, sacred, divine, holy, nonsecular, church, ecclesiastical, faith-based, devotional
"spiritual writings"

So because I used the english word in an english sentence it does NOT give you the liberty to translate it into another language so you can extrapolate a different meaning other than what I intended. I can see how you would do this to change the intended meaning of the bible, without a lexicon holding your translation to task!

That word pneuma(pneO = breath--blast of the nostrils + -ma which views the word from it's state or effect) is erroneously translated for you as, "spirit". When it ALWAYS refers to an external life breath or, external intellect! ALWAYS!!! And often simply refers to written Scripture which is exterior to you as opposed to psuchE(natural breath/intellect that you were born with) which is internal. And for some crazy ass reason, the translators thought that "soul", was a good translation of psuchE which has a verb form which is psuchO! Really, does the "soul" have a verb form?

Our English word "spirit" is transliterated from the Latin "spiritus" which means: breath. Jerome translated both ruwack(Hebrew) and pneuma(Greek)  correctly as "spiritus" into Latin and also means breath as breathing life or, intellect--and NEVER "spirit"!

So you have been taught every erroneous lie about "spirit" and not one of those asshole ever taught you to just simply breath!


Whereas, I am a pneumatic man(pneumatikos--adjective) living according to the theopnustos = God-breathed Scriptures living life pneumatikOs(adverb), pneumatically according the pneuma breath of God which is the the God Breathed Scripture!


Wicked man that I am!

Maybe, but I would think you more stupid than wicked.

For instance...

When I said spiritual why did you translate it back into the greek (not koine but greek?)
Are we speaking greek?
was I trying to draw from the Greek understanding of the word? No I used the English understand of the word spiritual. I never once mentioned or reference any part of the entomology. I meant what I said, to change that is a dishonest interpretation of what I said.

Your inability to discern the English use of the word is EXACTLY WHY you Need a lexicon. (If you can not extrapolate an English to English interpretation how in the world can your ability to translate span cultures and several centuries of a dead language?

[brewer]

What round are we up to in this god fight?

[The Grand Nudger]

Well, two nuts bickering over interpretation?  Lets see.... 365 days in a year, 1700 years since this argument began..assuming a single round a day, and only two participants...

Round 620,500.

[brewer]

Well, two nuts bickering over interpretation?  Lets see.... 365 days in a year, 1700 years since this argument began..assuming a single round a day, and only two participants...

Round 620,500.

The ring girls must just be hideous. 

Ding, Ding.

[Haipule]

Drich:

I STILL don't know how to hide your content. They can reread it in your post. So I wrote this independent to spare other readers, and yourself, but, YOU GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!

I use lexicons so that I can be familiar with words. NONE is perfect! NOT Strong's, NOT Thayer, and Not Kittles! Because all lexicon writers have a theological prejudice of what those words MUST mean according to, add supporting, their theological prejudice that most claim as "truth". Fancifully giving us the "ecclesiastical(church only)" meaning, and the "spiritual" meaning. Neither of which even existed in the 1st century!

The perfect thing is the grammatical inflection actually penned by the writer of Scripture. You CANNOT assign any meaning to any word without first understanding context, word order, anarthrous, pronoun reference, verb conjugation, noun declension, etc, which IS grammatical inflection, as the KoinE Greek, the autographed, actually written words, in all of it's grammatical inflection, by the actual writers, is HIGHLY inflective!

Let alone the ability to recognize partials, articles, pronouns, prepositions, an adverb, adjective, participles, verbs, nouns!

I'm not here to manipulate Scripture! God put me here, and built me like this, so I can simply show and tell you the truth that has been hidden in the ignorance and manipulation laughingly referred to as "theology"! I am NOT a teacher teaching! I NEVER knew how the truth could "set me free" until I was enabled to dismantle completely useless theology which is absativally ALL OF IT!

The most beautiful and engaging thing that I have ever read is the Scriptures--so full of life! So full of empowerment! So wonderful! Yet, it has been hidden in theology for nearly 2,000yrs with treasure everywhere hidden in plain sight!

My John 3 translations are perfect! So, if you can't conjugate a verb, or decline a noun, or adjective, whether articular or anarthrous, then--why are you calling me stupid!

[The Grand Nudger]

Because you;re squeezing in on his market share.  

He;s the christian on the boards that knows the true interpretation of scripture that the churches and christian pop culture have been hiding for centuries, so piss off!