Question to theists

[KevinM1]

It's the theistic version of "Wait until your father gets home" which is used to instill fear both in the present and as a deterrent against future misbehavior.  And just like the mundane threat, most people older than 7 aren't susceptible to it.  With theists, it's a tool used to shut down conversation that makes them uncomfortable.  It's easier to brag about how their god is going to judge and punish everyone rather than actually address whatever subject is causing such mental discomfort.

But, yes, it's becoming tiresome. I'd like to see GC challenge himself and not bring up divine retribution or eternal punishment in just one thread.

[robvalue]

Yeah, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he really does think that it's just a matter of applying enough threats and we'll crumble and join his cult. It's pretty sad that this is a representative God chooses to come visit us.

Am I supposed to trust that such an insane being isn't just going to torture me anyway even if I do everything he says? Or perhaps he has no ability to torture me at all and it's all bluster.

[purplepurpose]

Yeah, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he really does think that it's just a matter of applying enough threats and we'll crumble and join his cult. It's pretty sad that this is a representative God chooses to come visit us.

Am I supposed to trust that such an insane being isn't just going to torture me anyway even if I do everything he says? Or perhaps he has no ability to torture me at all and it's all bluster.

Paranoia is an instinct or thought process believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of delusion and irrationality.[1] Paranoid thinking typically includes persecutory, or beliefs of conspiracyconcerning a perceived threat towards oneself (e.g. the American colloquial phrase,"Everyone is out to get me"). Paranoia is distinct from phobias, which also involve irrational fear, but usually no blame. Making false accusations and the general distrust of others also frequently accompany paranoia. 

[Astreja]

Am I supposed to trust that such an insane being isn't just going to torture me anyway even if I do everything he says? Or perhaps he has no ability to torture me at all and it's all bluster.

I assert that no one would actually be safe from a god insane enough to use eternal torture.  A couple of million years in, it might get bored and start randomly throwing True Believers™ into hell to see if their faith can survive the experience.

[The Grand Nudger]

Magic book says it;s done that before, on a dare.

[Drich]

[quote='Drich' pid='1775822' dateline='1529093974']
This is 'good' and anyone who blindly accepts that our pop culture is better and can not object to anything we do now as not being 'good' would be in the same position in 1930's germany. because they too were caught up in the 'morality' the culture provided to the point they even separated from the church and hitler became their religious leader, or rather the minister of religion did who answered to hitler.

Actually Nazis where in excellent relationship with Christians and Hitler himself was a christian



Nazis also signed Reichskonkordat with the Church where Hitler granted the right of Catholics to practice their faith as well as the freedom to express it publicly without retribution. Catholics were "protected in their establishments and their activity." Religious orders were exempted from paying taxes on stipends they received from the church. The right to operate Catholic schools was reaffirmed. Government workers were forbidden from criticizing the church. Plus every German had to give 10% of their pay to the Church.
If you read Article 16 of the Reichskonkordat required German bishops and cardinals to swear an oath of loyalty to the Third Reich.



Also Nazis did not invent antisemitism but exploited traditional and very old Christian hate toward Jews like Heinrich Himmler, who was in charge of carrying out the Holocaust, used the myth of blood libel, or the ritual murder of Christian children by Jews, to incite anger among eastern European Catholics against Jews.


Not just that but Christians and Vatican stayed loyal to the Nazis even after WW2 when Vatican issued fake passports for Nazi criminals, like Mengele, so they can escape to Latin America


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/m...-documents
[/quote]

neign, Neign NEIGN!

What hitler's germany call christianity had a slight twist to it. Hitler was god in this version.. kinda hard to maintain the christian title when your world leader claims to be the christ no??

This version of Christianity was call "constructive christianity. " yes hitler did indeed sign an accord with the catholic church in 1933 to maintain worship but by 1937 he severed all ties to the catholic church and sent over 400 Catholic priests to the Dachau concentration camp to be put to death. google Dachau one of the more brutal camps. Then he installed state loyal priests. the idea was to maintain "morality" but extricate the God of the bible and install hitler as the supreme being. That is not Christianity sport. that is more like what society does now. get rid of god and place pop culture and pop morality incharge.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesiz...icy2.shtml

It's funny how your little commentary just seems to forget that part of history.. it's like you people care nothing for the real truth. you only want to seek out what you are looking for. here the example being you want Christianity to be aligned with the evil of the nazi's, but again Hitler had to dramatically change the rules of the church and interject himself as the leader of the church to have the german church on his side, but none of you want to know that truth. so you stop looking when you find a few pics and a creative narrative that could plausible explain the pics. Where is the demand for evidence? Or is that demand only for God?

Here is what hitler thought of christianity. He clearly admired the control the religion had over the people but was not a believe in God. in his book mein kampf he goes in to greater detail ultimatly userping the divinity of Christ and installing himself as a supreme being citing the use of his book as a moral guideline to or for the religious german.

So again was not a Christian, denies Christ makes himself out to be a deity ronds up and burns all the bibles and replaces them with his own book meinkampf..

what other Christian in the history of the word does this and seeks to maintain his christian title? If fact Hitler himself see his great departure from the church and reclassifies his religion, but you 'good people' want to change history so you can say hitler was christian. 
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_...olf_Hitler

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[quote='Drich' pid='1775822' dateline='1529093974']
Because what is good?

"Good" is the measure of the law pop culture says it wants to keep. So in 1930's germany "good" was a citizen of the blonde hair blue eye persuasion turning over jews to being in turned in ghettos and later concentration camps and eventually the gas chambers... 

If you're going down that road, don't bother calling the god of the Bible good either.  Between the Noachide flood and the whole "Believe in Jesus or go to hell" story arc, the actions of your god are just as morally iffy, if not more so.  One would expect a god to know better than the fan club of an Austrian painter with a silly moustache.

I wouldn't be a very strong christian if I could not sucessfully traverse this road.

So let's start with the idea that there is no good or bad in God's economy. because ultimately that's the gospel/good news of Christianity. the law is gone as a way to measure yourself against. ultimately jesus is measured in place of us, and as Jesus if found without blame or sin we too in his place are found without blame or sin. If and only if we seek his atonement.

Now let's put what pop morality buys you.. in the way of God if you seek to be judged by rules God will use His law to judge you. So on the eternity side your not gaining very much, how about on the pop culture side.. well that is it's only reward. As with 1940 German turning in jews was it's own reward like here killing you baby to stay in the work force, or killing your baby to allow you to continue to party and date other men again is it's own reward.

Ok so let's pretend God idk has the ability to know everything (like He is advertised to do) and he knows that if left uncheck this village of people would spawn a superradical group 10xs worse than ISIS which in turn would destroy the jews before Jesus could be born and save the world through his grace. Again keeping in mind not all people are equal meaning not all people belong to God/were planted on earth by God (the devil's children) would it not be in the intrest of the world for God to take out an evil people?

Now let look at what pop culture does when it does the same thing. let look at who the nazi's focused on taing out.. not as a village, but as a race. what was hitler's reason? because he thought the jews controlled all the money and european banks demanding the germans pay for the damages of wwI. So while God is focused on bring forgiveness of sin to the world, the nazi's sought revenge. while God at max kills in the hundreds 612 million jews died???
Or let look at a modern example in the 1.5 BILLION babies that died since the roe-v- wade decision.

I know you wanted to talk about the flood, but I ask who was killed in the flood. you can't say just women and children.... durning that time several different species of man all vied for control and power of the world.

Man made in the image of God/Man with a soul
Man who grew up out side the garden with no soul
then terrible human angel hybrids call titans.

God destroy everything except what HE CREATED. Or do you still not get that not everything crawling around back then was not man or man friendly. In one action God put man on top of the food chain. you or people who thoughtlessly bring up the ark should be the first with a word of graditude once you are taught about what was done.

Do you understand what I am saying? from with in the culture you have no way of being objective.

I'm not objective, not at all.  I think the concept of objective morality is a contradiction in terms.  As soon as value judgements become involved, we are dealing with subjectivity.

Unless the 'rules' are not your own. and again what you seem to fail to understand is Christianity is freedom from all law. If you had any idea about what you were speaking against, you'd be the first to fall silent.

So how much have you donated to support women who decide to keep their babies, Drich?  I'm talking food, shelter, education, childcare if she needs to go back to work to support the rest of her family.

kinda like what the christian home and bible schools do? idk but I do know a portion of what is given every sunday for 25 year.. plus beginning of school year and christmas donation.. all goes to support that foundation here.

For that matter, how much have you donated to help provide quality contraception to women who can't afford it, so that they don't become pregnant and don't need to get an abortion?  (I'm up to $100 CDN donations so far in the last 12 months.)

how about and you don't need contraception.

when we accept God's atonement we maintain or keep God's perfect standard as our guide posts which demands a high level of 'good' to be striven for.

There is nothing perfect about the standards of the Biblical god.


there is, you just do not understand the word any more. you place yourself in the center of the universe then look at all the ways God's standard fail you, then you can say God's standards are not perfect.. but know all those discrepancies are not of God but all those failures are how you fail God, not how God fails you because surprise! your not the center in which the universe revolves.

[Astreja]

God destroy everything except what HE CREATED. Or do you still not get that not everything crawling around back then was not man or man friendly. In one action God put man on top of the food chain. you or people who thoughtlessly bring up the ark should be the first with a word of graditude once you are taught about what was done.

Nope, not feeling the slightest bit of gratitude towards an imaginary tyrant that apparently didn't give a rat's ass about the suffering that a flood would cause.  It can get stuffed (or at least, it could get stuffed if it actually existed -- something that I profoundly doubt.)

...again what you seem to fail to understand is Christianity is freedom from all law.

Not interested in "freedom from all law."  Law provides structure and generally levels the playing field, safety-wise.

...you place yourself in the center of the universe then look at all the ways God's standard fail you...

Your imaginary friend is at liberty to show up in person at any time to set me right.  Your advocacy on its behalf is superfluous, mortal.

[Drich]

Nope, not feeling the slightest bit of gratitude towards an imaginary tyrant that apparently didn't give a rat's ass about the suffering that a flood would cause.  It can get stuffed (or at least, it could get stuffed if it actually existed -- something that I profoundly doubt.)

glob..
who suffered? are zoo monkeys complaining because they were higher up on the social ladder but God took them down too many notches?
who is in pain who claims to have lost any one?
or do you mean the whole sale destruction of the literally soulless monsters who preyed on humanity? or are you too foolish to understand that the world was steeped in a wickness it has nor it will ever see again.. do you not understand that the level of evil moses lived in every day was far worse than any worst day in a war or concentration camp or even evil that has ever happened since then? don't glance past this. God said that the level of evil was soo high, nothing created man could do would ever equal what souless men and titans were doing... You friggen moron that is who you morn, the monsters or demi gods that are no longer here enslaving or eating us is who your greive. well f-you and I say f-them and whom ever else who will not thank God for putting us on top of the food chain and incharge of this world. My prayer for you is that you live under those in whom you morn for. you want to know real oppression you want to be consumed by the angel hybrids then so be it.

I n the other hand would rather an all knowing God take them out before they became a problem for me.

...again what you seem to fail to understand is Christianity is freedom from all law.

Not interested in "freedom from all law."  Law provides structure and generally levels the playing field, safety-wise.

what level playing field do aborted children play on? what level playing field is there for someone who does not want to bake a cake for a gay wedding? how is it fair that anyone be made to use their talent to support something they do not believe in? what happens when the level playing field has 12 year olds prepped for sexual partners? will society seek to protect your 'safety' when you refuse to let some 30 year old douche pick up your little girl or grandaughter for a quick tinder date? can't pretend this is not already a thing.. as it is, just not here. in europe the age is 14 in africa the age can be young as 11.. it won't be long as much as we sexualize high schoolers in our fav movies and tv. the desensitization is already happening

Man's morality will not allow you to be above it, meaning you will never be in a position to contest it. as it is an ever downward spiraling pit of loosening morality

Freedom from this law freedom from God's law allows you to say no it is not ok to pick up my little girl for a date and then clock the pedophile. freedom from the law allows you to classify the bloody nosed monster in your door way as a pedophile and enables you to 'give him another if he does not leave.
As just because you are not bound to the law of God does not mean your thirst for true righteousness will ever go away. It simply means you are no longer judged by your actions as a means to righteousness before God.

...you place yourself in the center of the universe then look at all the ways God's standard fail you...

Your imaginary friend is at liberty to show up in person at any time to set me right.  Your advocacy on its behalf is superfluous, mortal.
[/quote]

if he did would you be able to recognise Him? or would you be looking for the god or idea of god that has already failed you? if your not looking or don't know what to look for how do you know "god" has not already shown up? Do you think He has to show up in a burning bush? or it showing up on a atheist forum to impossible for an all powerful God (with servants)

[Ravenshire]

No, GC. It's obvious you're a blind follower, not a questioner.

And I suppose you would question those who know more than you do, of coarse you would, self premotion is the theme of your life, sad just sad.

GC

What's really sad is how wrong you are, and how stupid you look, when you try to think for others. Questioning others, even those who allegedly know more or are in authority isn't self promotion. But you go ahead and keep thinking it is. We wouldn't want your cognate dissonance to get too deafening for you.

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This definition shows that I would have to be the one who could punish you by placing you in hell

GC

You do realize, I hope, that it is entirely possible to threaten one person with the acts of another, much like Rob's sniper example. You pass on the threat of hell in your gawd's name all the fucking time GC. At least be man enough to own it.

[Angrboda]

Nope, not feeling the slightest bit of gratitude towards an imaginary tyrant that apparently didn't give a rat's ass about the suffering that a flood would cause.  It can get stuffed (or at least, it could get stuffed if it actually existed -- something that I profoundly doubt.)

glob..
who suffered? are zoo monkeys complaining because they were higher up on the social ladder but God took them down too many notches?
who is in pain who claims to have lost any one?
or do you mean the whole sale destruction of the literally soulless monsters who preyed on humanity? or are you too foolish to understand that the world was steeped in a wickness it has nor it will ever see again.. do you not understand that the level of evil moses lived in every day was far worse than any worst day in a war or concentration camp or even evil that has ever happened since then? don't glance past this. God said that the level of evil was soo high, nothing created man could do would ever equal what souless men and titans were doing... You friggen moron that is who you morn, the monsters or demi gods that are no longer here enslaving or eating us is who your greive. well f-you and I say f-them and whom ever else who will not thank God for putting us on top of the food chain and incharge of this world. My prayer for you is that you live under those in whom you morn for. you want to know real oppression you want to be consumed by the angel hybrids then so be it.

Moses?