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RE: Evil Atheists
September 15, 2011 at 5:16 pm
(September 11, 2011 at 7:30 pm)little_monkey Wrote: (September 11, 2011 at 6:48 pm)StatCrux Wrote: (September 11, 2011 at 6:33 pm)Rhythm Wrote: What is moral truth?
Moral truth, is something which is beyond subjective opinion, not dependant upon social consequence, benefit or prevalent societal beliefs. For example rape, rape is simply "wrong" regardless of motive, intent or purpose. There is no rape that can be justified, it would be morally true to say that rape is "wrong"
Suppose the human species disappeared and what's left are a man and a woman. The woman does not consent, but the man rapes her anyway, and gets pregnant. Repeatedly she refuses him, repeatedly he rapes her. She has so many offsprings from the rapings, but the offsprings go on perpetuating the human species.
Was rape wrong in that instance?
Yes. Are you arguing that a subjective purpose or intent (in this case the continuation of the human race) is justification for an action (rape) that fulfills the subjective purpose or intent? Do you believe rape to be justified in this instance?
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RE: Evil Atheists
September 15, 2011 at 5:56 pm
(This post was last modified: September 15, 2011 at 5:58 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Hey, haven't seen you in a few. What is moral truth Statcrux? How did you determine this? I noticed you appealed to the majority opinion regarding rape, but I distinctly remember you criticizing mob rule, so there must be something else?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Evil Atheists
September 15, 2011 at 6:00 pm
(This post was last modified: September 15, 2011 at 6:09 pm by StatCrux.)
(September 11, 2011 at 8:42 am)little_monkey Wrote: Let me rephrase that debate: every morality is subjective, including yours. Just because you are inserting your god into your morality scheme doesn't make any more "objective". Yours, whether it is Christian or any other region, is a subjective morality, to which any other religion would vociferously object to.
Every conclusion would be subjective. Any society that holds itself and wellbeing as the ultimate goal from which to derive moral standards would have subjective morality. A society thats accepts the existance of a transcendant lawgiver might have subjective opinions about an objective truth,there is a distinct difference. The morals each society would create may be similar, but that isn't the issue. The society that accepts a transcendant lawgiver has a point of reference to determine "good" and "evil" the society without a lawgiver has no such basis for determining either, one persons opinion is just as valid as anothers. Purpose of life becomes the driving factor from which morality is derived. Is life eternal and with justice or simply fleeting without consequence?, the morality which is derived from these two conflicting views is very different. "Meaning of life" becomes the primary consideration in a theistic philosophy, not "sensual satisfaction of life".
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RE: Evil Atheists
September 15, 2011 at 6:04 pm
(This post was last modified: September 15, 2011 at 6:06 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Unfortunately there have been many "transcendent lawgivers" through the ages. They don't always seem to have agreed do they? Apparently, what this make believe entity thinks is right or wrong changes from society to society. Making the very notion itself subjective. For the umpteenth time, what is moral truth, and how did you arrive at this conclusion?
(It's okay, you can say it)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Evil Atheists
September 15, 2011 at 6:06 pm
(September 15, 2011 at 5:56 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Hey, haven't seen you in a few. What is moral truth Statcrux? How did you determine this? I noticed you appealed to the majority opinion regarding rape, but I distinctly remember you criticizing mob rule, so there must be something else?
Perhaps you could respond to the question I asked regarding your justification of rape? (apologies if I have misunderstood)
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RE: Evil Atheists
September 15, 2011 at 6:07 pm
(This post was last modified: September 15, 2011 at 6:08 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
What an asshole. More of the same tired shit we get day in and day out. I don't want your apology, it's filthy.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Evil Atheists
September 15, 2011 at 6:14 pm
(September 15, 2011 at 6:04 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Unfortunately there have been many "transcendent lawgivers" through the ages. They don't always seem to have agreed do they? Apparently, what this make believe entity thinks is right or wrong changes from society to society. Making the very notion itself subjective. For the umpteenth time, what is moral truth, and how did you arrive at this conclusion?
(It's okay, you can say it)
I responded to your question "what is moral truth", giving definition and example. you then tried to give a justification for rape which I also responded to by asking for clarification (as yet unanswered). What more can I do?
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RE: Evil Atheists
September 15, 2011 at 6:15 pm
(This post was last modified: September 15, 2011 at 6:17 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Let me lay it out really plain for you. You, me, every swinging richard, we all derive our morals from exactly the same place. The morality you find in any given holy text was exactly the morality that those who wrote it held. God is always on their side in a conflict, he likes the same things they like, hates the same things they hate.
I gave no such justification, fuck you. Is there a goddamned academy that christians go to to learn to these habits?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Evil Atheists
September 15, 2011 at 6:30 pm
(September 15, 2011 at 6:15 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Let me lay it out really plain for you. You, me, every swinging richard, we all derive our morals from exactly the same place. The morality you find in any given holy text was exactly the morality that those who wrote it held. God is always on their side in a conflict, he likes the same things they like, hates the same things they hate.
I gave no such justification, fuck you. Is there a goddamned academy that christians go to to learn to these habits?
My sincere apologies I had you confused with "little monkey" post #159 who asked the same question "what is moral truth"
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RE: Evil Atheists
September 15, 2011 at 6:31 pm
You know why people keep asking? Because you never defined it. Giving an example of something you feel to be immoral is hardly answering the question of "What is moral truth".
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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