American workers' wages stagnant, even in a great economy: why?

[RoadRunner79]

Much like a purchase decision, wage is a negotiation based on supply and demand, what it's worth to the consumer and so on. On both ends, you can ask for what you want, but you also have to keep in mind what the guy down the street is selling or buying.

LOL.  Largely it isn't because of enormous differences in negotiating power between employers and employees.

Personally, I'm being asked to do more and more (we rolled more than one eliminated department's responsibilities into my group AND laid off part of my department).  Each of my engineers contributes more to the bottom line than ever before.  We're more profitable year over year.

Yet, our wages are stagnant.

Where's this trickle down that conservatives are always on about?  Hasn't been happening, isn't going to happen.

I would agree that trickle down economics has been oversold in the past, however I also believe that if the company doesn't have extra money, that it is also difficult to get a raise. I believe in balance, I also believe in the free market.  

We had a large increase in benefits with the initiation of Obamacare (increase in cost, quality went down).  And we where told that this was our raise.   I did receive a pretty good raise this year (along with tax decrease).  I was also willing to go somewhere else if things where much better there (either more pay, or less work for the money).

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It may be difficult In a larger company, and perhaps they don’t care about turnover (poor management). However, I would be bringing it up often, if you are doing more work, getting paid the same, and the company is doing well. If you do it respectfully, it never hurts to ask or remind them. And if it’s better elsewhere, then leave.

[Angrboda]

I'm all for taxing the 1% in order to reduce the deficit, but really, the people in the 1% tend to be the innovators who produce wealth.

[Amarok]

I would agree that trickle down economics has been oversold in the past, however I also believe that if the company doesn't have extra money, that it is also difficult to get a raise. I believe in balance, I also believe in the free market.   

We had a large increase in benefits with the initiation of Obamacare (increase in cost, quality went down).  And we where told that this was our raise.   I did receive a pretty good raise this year (along with tax decrease).  I was also willing to go somewhere else if things where much better there (either more pay, or less work for the money).

---

It may be difficult In a larger company, and perhaps they don’t care about turnover (poor management). However, I would be bringing it up often, if you are doing more work, getting paid the same, and the company is doing well. If you do it respectfully, it never hurts to ask or remind them. And if it’s better elsewhere, then leave.

[Anomalocaris]

Should a worker get more simply because the overall economy grew?

Or, should a worker get more because his individual output grew?

I'm all for taxing the 1% in order to reduce the deficit, but really, the people in the 1% tend to be the innovators who produce wealth.

A worker should get more when his firm’s earnings percapita grew.  If the firm’s earning per capital grew, that means productivity per capita grew.    

Remember, Jesus will convert all the earning growth that didn’t translate into wage growth, convert it into sulfur and shove it up your ass when you meet him, just because he could.

[Jackalope]

LOL.  Largely it isn't because of enormous differences in negotiating power between employers and employees.

Personally, I'm being asked to do more and more (we rolled more than one eliminated department's responsibilities into my group AND laid off part of my department).  Each of my engineers contributes more to the bottom line than ever before.  We're more profitable year over year.

Yet, our wages are stagnant.

Where's this trickle down that conservatives are always on about?  Hasn't been happening, isn't going to happen.

I would agree that trickle down economics has been oversold in the past, however I also believe that if the company doesn't have extra money, that it is also difficult to get a raise. I believe in balance, I also believe in the free market.  

We had a large increase in benefits with the initiation of Obamacare (increase in cost, quality went down).  And we where told that this was our raise.   I did receive a pretty good raise this year (along with tax decrease).  I was also willing to go somewhere else if things where much better there (either more pay, or less work for the money).

---

It may be difficult In a larger company, and perhaps they don’t care about turnover (poor management).  However, I would be bringing it up often, if you are doing more work, getting paid the same, and the company is doing well. If you do it respectfully, it never hurts to ask or remind them. And if it’s better elsewhere, then leave.

LOL as if I haven't done those things. FYI, I work at a very profitable small company, and have since the doors opened. We've been more profitable year over year and over the last ten years, real wages have declined. Benefits have declined. Costs shifted to employees. Common industry practice. I should leave a 19 year stint where I am now senior engineer for where, exactly?

I'm 51 years old, with niche software development skills to distinguish myself from much younger developers. Valuable skills, but not in demand. Age discrimination is also rampant in this industry. H1-B's. Offshoring. It might be a free market were the playing field level. It is not.

"Trickle down" was hardly oversold, it's a fucking scam and it's only served to widen the divide between the haves and have note and shrink the middle class.

[John V]

A worker should get more when his firm’s earnings percapita grew.  If the firm’s earning per capital grew, that means productivity per capita grew.  

The fact that average productivity grew doesn't mean that each individual worker's productivity grew. You know that.

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LOL as if I haven't done those things.  FYI, I work at a very profitable small company, and have since the doors opened.  We've been more profitable year over year and over the last ten years, real wages have declined.  Benefits have declined.  Costs shifted to employees.  Common industry practice.  I should leave a 19 year stint where I am now senior engineer for where, exactly?

It's not the government's fault that you didn't shop around and increase your earnings while you were still marketable.

Dope smoking hippies frequently do just tread water through life. Nothing wrong with that, just enjoy it and don't be envious of others.

[Whateverist]

Should a worker get more simply because the overall economy grew?

Yes.

Or, should a worker get more because his individual output grew?

Also yes.

I'm all for taxing the 1% in order to reduce the deficit, but really, the people in the 1% tend to be the innovators who produce wealth.

That's the Koolade talking.

[Amarok]

It's not the government's fault that you didn't shop around and increase your earnings while you were still marketable.

And Capitalist nihilist speak 

Dope smoking hippies frequently do just tread water through life. Nothing wrong with that, just enjoy it and don't be envious of others.

Straw man

[RoadRunner79]

I would agree that trickle down economics has been oversold in the past, however I also believe that if the company doesn't have extra money, that it is also difficult to get a raise. I believe in balance, I also believe in the free market.  

We had a large increase in benefits with the initiation of Obamacare (increase in cost, quality went down).  And we where told that this was our raise.   I did receive a pretty good raise this year (along with tax decrease).  I was also willing to go somewhere else if things where much better there (either more pay, or less work for the money).

---

It may be difficult In a larger company, and perhaps they don’t care about turnover (poor management).  However, I would be bringing it up often, if you are doing more work, getting paid the same, and the company is doing well. If you do it respectfully, it never hurts to ask or remind them. And if it’s better elsewhere, then leave.

LOL as if I haven't done those things. FYI, I work at a very profitable small company, and have since the doors opened. We've been more profitable year over year and over the last ten years, real wages have declined. Benefits have declined. Costs shifted to employees. Common industry practice. I should leave a 19 year stint where I am now senior engineer for where, exactly?

I'm 51 years old, with niche software development skills to distinguish myself from much younger developers. Valuable skills, but not in demand. Age discrimination is also rampant in this industry. H1-B's. Offshoring. It might be a free market were the playing field level. It is not.

"Trickle down" was hardly oversold, it's a fucking scam and it's only served to widen the divide between the haves and have note and shrink the middle class.

Ok... so there are other reasons you are staying which are greater than the pay issue. I understand, I’ve given up money a few times myself for things more important. I was also willing to leave for a better offer recently (not necessarily money, but perhaps). I can understand complaining, but forcefufully taking is another matter, I can’t get on board with. I personally think that actors and athletes are overpaid, but if they can get it....good for them.

[bennyboy]

@OP

I'm pretty sure it's because the economy is measured in GDP, and most of it is going to the rich. They talk about job numbers-- but people off the street with a "job" and people actually following a path with any opportunity for prosperity are a very different thing. I mean, a job in 7/11 is still a job, but making a million more of those isn't really a boon to the working man.

As for how to solve this: rich fucks don't actually DO anything without willing workers. If people become so fed up with the inequity that they will refuse to work, the wages will spike overnight.

The problem is that people have kids before they save money, that they compete with each other (for example, by both members in a family working full time or even overtime), and in general do almost everything a person could possibly do to drive wages DOWN. They must do this because of POOR LIFE PLANNING which is endemic among the working class, and which leaves them absolutely no strength upon which to negotiate.

There's really no getting over supply and demand, and with increased efficiency, demand is down.