A thought on Homosexuality

[Silver]

hehe, found this:

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[Amarok]

Nobody follows Freud anymore his idea's have been superseded and nobody was going to kill you for suggesting it's a choice . They will laugh at you but kill nope .

I still have Freudian lips. 

Slips, I meant slips.

[Fireball]

Nobody follows Freud anymore his idea's have been superseded and nobody was going to kill you for suggesting it's a choice . They will laugh at you but kill nope .

I still have Freudian lips. 

Slips, I meant slips.

M-hm, m-hm. Do tell. Here all this time I thought you were a guy.

[Whateverist]

Yeah, sexuality is pretty fluid, but not evenly so for everyone.  Some are way over on the hetero side while others way over on the other end.  I think "born that way" is more true for some than others.

IDK, Whatevs. When I find that some guy who is "way over on the hetero side" I wonder if the fluidity is not boiling furiously just underneath the lid.

Same goes for the other end of the spectrum. I've had gay friends who I wondered "how the fuck can you be that gay." I think some gay people omit any underlying fluidity from their public sexual persona in much the same way hetero "tough guys" do. Not that either one isn't firmly hetero or firmly gay-- they probably are. It's just that I view a person "too far" in one direction as suspiciously unrealistic.

hehe, found this:

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Dude, you need to dial back the homo or you'll get stuck at one end of the spectrum!  You can do it.

[Silver]

Dude, you need to dial back the homo or you'll get stuck at one end of the spectrum!  You can do it.

I'm fine being identified as being on the very end of a spectrum.

I also identify as a seven on the Dawkins Scale.

[Aroura]

To be fair, for the vast majority, no it's not. It's programmed in from birth.

If it were a choice you'd see tons of Chrustain parents with Buddhist or Islamic kids, and vice versa.

It's complete natural to believe what your where's teach you, it's as much a part of human nature as sexuality. It's sad that we have this leftover by product that each generation continues to pass down, but it's no choice.

Exposure to other ideas young does seem to enable the ability to wake up later in life though. So hurray for that at least.

I think you're muddying the distinction between something being a choice and not being a choice.  Parental indoctrination may be a strong determinant of belief, but not in the same way that whatever factors influence sexual orientation are.  There is still choice in matters of religion, even for the indoctrinated, while for sexual orientation, there really isn't.  And I doubt it's simply due to being exposed to other ideas young.

I'm not trying to muddy anything.  I don't think it's the same, nor did I say that, but it's still not a choice (for the vast majority of people).  Everything is a sliding scale.  Our skin color is even less of a choice than sexual orientation, which as has been pointed out, can be fluid for some people. 

That level of brainwashing and indoctrination we see in say, evangelists, is inescapable without help, for most people. Fortunately, help has arrived in the form of the internet and easy access to other ideas an information.  Without that, it's a pretty trap most people find themselves in. Even with it, most people will be unable to be anything but what they were molded to be when young.  But it gives a few more the tools they need.

If a child was kidnapped and mostly isolated and taught such nonsense in a cult from birth, we would pity them, not tell them they are choosing it as an adult.
You know how people say, if being gay is a choice, when did you choose to be straight?  The same goes for the indoctrinated.  When did they choose that belief?  For most people, they don't. 

Choice is just the word people use when they really mean they want to blame people for being a certain way. It's certainly how Christians use it when lobbing it at gay people, and it often appears to be meant as a pejorative in this context when atheists throw it at Christians.  They are choosing willful ignorance.  It's certainly satisfying to vilify the other with the idea of "they choose it".

I'm not saying you vilified, but I felt a sense of it in Fake Messia's post, hence my response to him.

Can Christians change religious belief in a way that gay people cannot change their orientation?  Absolutely!  But they do not really get to choose when or how that happens. It only happens if they have the tools (curiosity, exposure to other ideas, education, skepticism, etc).  And I would argue that some people are mentally incapable of changing those beleifs, no matter what tools we gave them.  Everyone is different.
So my point is, dismissing it as a choice is not healthy or productive.  In my opinion, anyway.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Nobody follows Freud anymore his idea's have been superseded and nobody was going to kill you for suggesting it's a choice . They will laugh at you but kill nope .

Location-dependent, of course.

[Whateverist]

Dude, you need to dial back the homo or you'll get stuck at one end of the spectrum!  You can do it.

I'm fine being identified as being on the very end of a spectrum.

I also identify as a seven on the Dawkins Scale.  

Oh dear.  That is serious.

[Bob Kelso]

I’d say my tastes have definitely changed over the years. I’d had thoughts when I was younger, but they were fleeting and heavily repressed (thanks Southern Baptist upbringing) but I go both ways. Didn’t fully figure that out until I was out of my teens. Hell I believe I’ve talked about it here once or twice.

I’m still in the closet about it to almost everyone, but it’s by choice and I’m ok with it. Ive noticed that, unfortunately, bisexuals get shit from every side. That is to say, even on the LGBT side. I’ve never had to hide a relationship (only hetero so far, and I’m thinking I’ve found “the one” anyway) but if I ever found myself in one I wouldn’t hide it at that point.

[brewer]

I still have Freudian lips. 

Slips, I meant slips.

M-hm, m-hm. Do tell. Here all this time I thought you were a guy.

Geez............. thank god I didn't say tits.

Shit, I meant snatch, yeah snatch.