A thought on Homosexuality

[I_am_not_mafia]

I think we're all a mix of nature and nurture in all aspects. Some people are more fluid than others. Others less so. So I think it's the case that sexuality is fluid to some extent but you are also born a certain way as well.

[robvalue]

I don't find it relevant whether someone is born gay, becomes gay at some point or even somehow chooses to be gay. It's no one's business but their own.

While all this is true i just thought the distinction needed to be said that change does not equal choice .

Absolutely, yes. I should have made clear that I was talking from a moral perspective. Understanding sexuality as a whole is very important, and shouldn't be oversimplified.

I think the "born that way" defense is something of a stop-gap. It only applies to people who think there's something inherently inferior or even immoral about homosexuality, and this argument tells them that they "can't help it". Once people generally stop being bigots in the first place, the argument won't be needed or even make sense anymore.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I don't think there's anything that could make us say it's impossible to be born with an inclination toward the same sex, we certainly accept the opposite.

[polymath257]

Was I 'born straight'? Well, I never made a conscious choice to be attracted to women. I just was. I remember feeling somewhat disappointed with myself that I wasn't bisexual. *shrug* So be it.

I see attraction as similar to belief: I don't choose either. I look at myself and find out what I think or feel--what I am convinced is true or who I find turns me on. And I don't see many others who 'choose' to be attracted to one person instead of another: they simply are.

As for fluidity: my tastes have changed over time. I am also not excluding attraction to men; it just hasn't happened yet. But would I deny an attraction is there if it is? Probably not (depends on social situations---I'd don't encourage an attraction to a married woman either).

In any case, this is one of the things that pisses me off about religions: they want to stick their noses into stuff that is NONE of their concern. Who I am attracted to and what I want to do with a willing, honest partners isn't anyone's business than those involved.

[Fake Messiah]

Being gay is natural while being christian is a choice.

[Aroura]

Being gay is natural while being christian is a choice.

To be fair, for the vast majority, no it's not. It's programmed in from birth.

If it were a choice you'd see tons of Chrustain parents with Buddhist or Islamic kids, and vice versa.

It's complete natural to believe what your where's teach you, it's as much a part of human nature as sexuality. It's sad that we have this leftover by product that each generation continues to pass down, but it's no choice.

Exposure to other ideas young does seem to enable the ability to wake up later in life though. So hurray for that at least.

[Angrboda]

Being gay is natural while being christian is a choice.

To be fair, for the vast majority, no it's not. It's programmed in from birth.

If it were a choice you'd see tons of Chrustain parents with Buddhist or Islamic kids, and vice versa.

It's complete natural to believe what your where's teach you, it's as much a part of human nature as sexuality. It's sad that we have this leftover by product that each generation continues to pass down, but it's no choice.

Exposure to other ideas young does seem to enable the ability to wake up later in life though. So hurray for that at least.

I think you're muddying the distinction between something being a choice and not being a choice. Parental indoctrination may be a strong determinant of belief, but not in the same way that whatever factors influence sexual orientation are. There is still choice in matters of religion, even for the indoctrinated, while for sexual orientation, there really isn't. And I doubt it's simply due to being exposed to other ideas young.

[robvalue]

Maybe we could say that indoctrination is heavy coercion towards a particular choice, sometimes to the extreme that someone doesn't even realize they have a choice. The latter would especially apply when there is little to no exposure to anyone outside the bubble.

[Joods]

I don't think that anyone who contends that they were born the way they are is suggesting that they fell out of the womb thinking "mmmm, penis". 

IDK about anybody else, but I knew girls were pretty by kindergarten.  Could have been earlier, but I don't really have many memories before that.  If you asked my mom, she'd tell you I've pretty much always loved tits.

As an observer, watching four kids, from kindergarten to fourth grade....all of em are known quantities at this point.

I met my oldest stepson when he was 7 and it was pretty easy to tell by his mannerisms and how he acted around certain kids, that he was gay. He came out to us five years later at the age of 12. Before that, he made comments to me over the years that really just confirmed his being gay.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I had a 7 yo slide into the urinal stall to try and check out my junk once. My first thought was "no matter what actually happened I'll be the bad guy if someone walks in." So I shifted to the next stall mid-stream. Kid got the idea.