RE: If theists understood "evidence"
October 10, 2018 at 8:14 am
(This post was last modified: October 10, 2018 at 8:26 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Continuing, and continuing to limit ourselves to authentic paul. Was paul an epileptic? Probably.
In corinthians and galatians paul makes reference;
Now, obviously, the description of the incident on the road to damascus that lends the idea credence is from acts - and that's not historically credible...but it is credible with regards to what people believed about pauls experience. They described it -as- a seizure, because they thought it was one.
I understand why you might feel compelled to argue against that - but before you do...let me stress that there's no reason that god couldn't reveal himself during epilepsy..hell, maybe seeing god in that manner fuckin causes one.
So, in addition to the fact that paul was a bit of a boaster, he was likely epileptic - or at least believed to be. He certainly seems to be aware of an illness at the heart of his ministry and deeply ingrained in his experience of life.
In corinthians and galatians paul makes reference;
Quote:I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. 2 I know a man in Christwho fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. 3 And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— 4 was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell. 5 I will boast about a man like that, but I will not boast about myself, except about my weaknesses. 6 Even if I should choose to boast, I would not be a fool,because I would be speaking the truth. But I refrain, so no one will think more of me than is warranted by what I do or say, 7 or because of these surpassingly great revelations. Therefore, in order to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
Quote:8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. 9 But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces[d]? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.
12 I plead with you, brothers and sisters, become like me, for I became like you. You did me no wrong. 13 As you know, it was because of an illness that I first preached the gospel to you, 14 and even though my illness was a trial to you, you did not treat me with contempt or scorn. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself. 15 Where, then, is your blessing of me now? I can testify that, if you could have done so, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me. 16 Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?
17 Those people are zealous to win you over, but for no good. What they want is to alienate you from us, so that you may have zeal for them. 18 It is fine to be zealous, provided the purpose is good, and to be so always, not just when I am with you. 19 My dear children, for whom I am again in the pains of childbirth until Christ is formed in you, 20 how I wish I could be with you now and change my tone, because I am perplexed about you!
Now, obviously, the description of the incident on the road to damascus that lends the idea credence is from acts - and that's not historically credible...but it is credible with regards to what people believed about pauls experience. They described it -as- a seizure, because they thought it was one.
I understand why you might feel compelled to argue against that - but before you do...let me stress that there's no reason that god couldn't reveal himself during epilepsy..hell, maybe seeing god in that manner fuckin causes one.
So, in addition to the fact that paul was a bit of a boaster, he was likely epileptic - or at least believed to be. He certainly seems to be aware of an illness at the heart of his ministry and deeply ingrained in his experience of life.
(October 10, 2018 at 8:01 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote:Authentic paul is the evidence, are you disputing it's value?(October 10, 2018 at 7:49 am)Khemikal Wrote: Have we?
No, we have not. I directly answered questions you asked. Yes, it is the majority opinion of new testament scholarship that the bulk of what is attributed to paul and about paul is not authentic. The majority of the paul as persecutor tidbits we have are in legendary paul. Limiting ourselves to authentic paul, we find a trivial and vague claim...that -must- be trivial and vague..or else it would not support either the person of paul or the dating of the authentics.
Ok... more to the context of the thread, I'm going to ask what the evidence and reasons for these claims is.
Quote:And I think that it is off topic, because you jumped from another claim about Paul to something else about Paul. However the purpose of the thread was to discuss evidence, and apparently what "only if theist understood" Your purpose seems to be something else.Just Stahp. Here I am, discussing the evidence. Do you understand the evidence?
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