Damned STUPID Priest yesterday . . .

[The Grand Nudger]

They're coming for your anus.  You have an irresistible anus.  You probably ought to check under your bed, right now..just to be sure. They're gonna take your anus, and I'm gonna take your magic book.

If I were you, I'd arm myself...to the teeth.

@Tack
: Looks up : Any more questions?

[tackattack]

Sorry, dinner break, enchiladas.

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Religions aren't people..either, all the wanting to shank religion in the world won't amount to wanting to shank a person.  You're just reasserting the same thing in other words.  You can refer back to my exposition of the motivations of the khmer rouge both as they stated them and as they were to see why this will never amount to anything more than amateur jingoism.  

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atheism= absence of belief in deities, anti-theism= opposition to belief in deities, anti-religious= opposition to religion of any kind. Ie. French revolution, Marxism-Leninism, Albania, moldavian soviet socialist republic, khmer rouge, etc. I did look back on that they were attempting to overthrow their monarchy and to quote yourself " attacking an institution moreso than the belief system". So overthrowing a monarchy isn't anti-religious?

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Even the religious are mostly motivated by a mountain of things other than religion.  Most of them don't stop to wonder whether or not jesus would order the steak or the salad, knamean?  I don't see any need to offer a replacement for religious motivation, as nothing worthwhile will be lost to need replacing.  It's like you asking what I would replace a parasite with, after having removed it.  Nothing.  

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Ok fair point, many inputs, none of which are required for moral value.

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Mostly because religion, not unique in this but in the set...gives us a dangerous certainty in whatever we happen to be doing.  It can subvert our better judgement and, while it does so, convince us that this antithetical judgement is THE BEST judgement.  Then theres it's institutional nature...which means that..when it inevitably goes south, it's not just one deranged asshole on the crazytrain to boomtown.

So, some homophobe might be uncomfortable around gay people..but it takes a believer to think that the lord of creation hates queers and wants them dead-ed...and that it would be good and godly to fulfill that creators wish or at least make it as hard as possible to just wake up and breath every day.  Rinse and repeat with every outgroup as each religion sees it.  Imagine a whole country full of these fuckers....and then remember that I'm living in one.  

A persons decency has an inverse relationship to their fundamental religiosity.  We can all tell the nutters (the irreligious and the moderately religious alike) by how seriously they take the most seriously fucked up things they find in their respective magic books.

Even more simply..though, to be asked why I might think that a gaggle of life rejecting faiths that spent their first few thousand years annihilating all life affirming faith..and in which all members now dream of the apocalypse........is absurd, on it's face...to me.  Ultimately, these were the winners in the wars the gods waged with mens bodies and minds as proxies..and if we hit the reset button..I;d expect an equally barbaric set of faiths to win out yet again.  Red in tooth and claw actually applies to the gods just as aptly as any other animal.  Any religion not willing to go toe to toe in atrocity ends up the victim, not the victor.

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So you object here because:
1. it provides a mechanism for the BEST judgement that can subvert our better judgement
2. It's an institution full of deranged assholes
3. There is an inverse relation between their religiosity and their decency proven by nutter that take their magic book seriously
4. life rejecting faith
5. History of annihilating all life affirming faith
6. Currently dream of the apocalypse
7. Equally as barbaric as any other faith
8. Promotes atrocity for atrocity so as not to be victimized

Does that about sum it up?

[Angrboda]

[The Grand Nudger]

Sorry, dinner break, enchiladas.

Yeah man, np.  Enchiladas?  Jelly.  I'm having a grilled cheese sammy for dinner, lol.

So overthrowing a monarchy isn't anti-religious?

Overthrowing a monarchy is probably a more apt description of what the khmer rouge was up to than overthrowing a religion, ironically.  

So you object here because:
1. it provides a mechanism for the BEST judgement that can subvert our better judgement

For a completely sarcastic and utterly evil value of "best", yeah.  

2. It's an institution full of deranged assholes

It's an institution that compels many otherwise decent people to act out on the whims of one deranged asshole, including a deranged asshole in the sky, yes. Let's call it a predictable deranged asshole factory.

3. There is an inverse relation between their religiosity and their decency proven by nutter that take their magic book seriously

Can you not immediately recognize the nutters by reference to the same?  

4. life rejecting faith

Yup.

5. History of annihilating all life affirming faith

Yup.

6. Currently dream of the apocalypse

Yup.

7. Equally as barbaric as any other faith

More barbaric, actually.  The current winners of a contest of barbarism.

8. Promotes atrocity for atrocity so as not to be victimized

Has no choice, as a correction, pursuant to the above. If some other religion scares the piss off people more, they lose followers to that carrot and stick, and when two religions go at it..well......

Does that about sum it up?

Not really..those are just the few things right up there on the surface, and you missed a few....lol...but isn't it enough........

[tackattack]

And you're sure it wasn't a theistic monarchy being overthrown?

For clarity:
1. it provides a mechanism to subvert better judgement and moral norms by positing an objective morality that would be deontologicaly the "highest good/bad"

2. a predictable deranged asshole factory because of see 1

Can you not immediately recognize the nutters by reference to the same?  

Nope. I give people the benefit of the doubt till they open their mouth to judge their intent and decency. I could agree that:
3. There is usually an inverse relation between their intensity and intentions that works against their decency  

4. life rejecting faith

Could you please expand on this one. What is a life rejecting faith?


5. History of annihilating all life affirming faith
6. Currently dream of the apocalypse

7. More barbaric than any other faith

8. Has no choice but to promotes atrocity for atrocity so as not to be victimized. see 4,5 and 7


I actually feel like I'm learning something about your stance so I appreciate your attention in this. I'll address them in the AM as I'm very tired.

[The Grand Nudger]

And you're sure it wasn't a theistic monarchy being overthrown?

Best to just track back and take a look.  The buddhist apparatus was on board with imperialist influence and critical of the new regime.  There was antipathy among the common folk toward monks due to their part in a tragic socio-economic state of affairs, and the fact that the type of buddhism prevalent in the region asserted that a persons inequality in life was a deserved and proper state of affairs gave ideological cover....for what was still, surrounding all of this, a despotic power grab by a fantastically horrid bunch of motherfuckers.  

The notion that an atheistic state was killing religious people because atheism isn't just inept..it's dangerous, because it occludes the actual causes of the tragedy and all but ensures a fertile ground for it to happen again...and that same antipathy and tragic state of affairs is growing, again..in combodia, as we speak.  

So I guess we may as well add that the the list of why theistic belief sucks donkey balls.  It makes people say stupid shit like that to potentially and actually tragic ends.  

For clarity:
1. it provides a mechanism to subvert better judgement and moral norms by positing an objective morality that would be deontologicaly the "highest good/bad"

No, tack, lol.  It makes people think that their worst impulses..or the worst impulse of some other, -is- the best judgement.  The law written on the fabric of the cosmos itself, lol.

2. a predictable deranged asshole factory because of see 1

Pursuant to my one, not your second attempt to make it something else..yes (and now we can add that to the list, too....)

Can you not immediately recognize the nutters by reference to the same?  

Nope. I give people the benefit of the doubt till they open their mouth to judge their intent and decency. I could agree that:
3. There is usually an inverse relation between their intensity and intentions that works against their decency  

I honestly don't think that you're being entirely honest with me or yourself..or both, here.  If I say the word "religious extremist" you probably don't think I'm referring to a moderate.  A specific type of religious nutter jumps to your mind. You see them, I see them, we all see them. If anyone;s going to bomb an abortion clinic or give a queer a curby..it's gonna be -that- guy..we think to ourselves.

4. life rejecting faith

Could you please expand on this one. What is a life rejecting faith?

A faith that eschews the value of this life in favor of the primacy of some next life (or no life).  

5. History of annihilating all life affirming faith
6. Currently dream of the apocalypse

7. More barbaric than any other faith

8. Has no choice but to promotes atrocity for atrocity so as not to be victimized. see 4,5 and 7

Yup, though I fear that you're going to end up focusing too much on a specific faith, I'm referring to theistic faith, as a whole....and I'm willing to do a little east v west split here because I have a whole different set of criticism for eastern religions, with some overlap where it applies.  

I actually feel like I'm learning something about your stance so I appreciate your attention in this. I'll address them in the AM as I'm very tired.

No worries. I hope you don't have high expectations as far as responding in a way that would change my mind. That's just another thing I'd add to the list. The effrontery of the notion that these things are not real and pressing concerns of a pattern of behavior and psychology in theistic belief. That I'm one brilliant objection, of yours or some other random believer, from thinking religion is all chocolate and roses.

[Amarok]

So overthrowing a monarchy isn't anti-religious?

Nope lots of reason you can want a monarchy gone .

[Huggy Bear]

I always knew the greeks and chinese were up to no good.

What we're the Egyptians? Chopped liver?

[brewer]

I always knew the greeks and chinese were up to no good.

What we're the Egyptians? Chopped liver?

They were in there, just didn't make my first cut.

[The Grand Nudger]

I always knew the greeks and chinese were up to no good.

What we're the Egyptians? Chopped liver?

When the greeks showed up..yeah.  After that, they were greek..till the romans showed up......