Homosexuals and Heaven

[ElDinero]

So basically, homosexual relationships are wrong even though you admit they are every bit as loving and committed as heterosexual ones, marriage is better except in the cases where it isn't, pre-marital sex leads to trust issues except when it doesn't, and people who can't naturally conceive can't fully enjoy raising a child, except in the cases where they can.

I'm done with this. Your views are offensive, self-contradictory in nature and outdated.

[Erinome]

The part when she said that gay relationships aren't functional I though might have an aneurysm.

Functional according to whose standards? Ugh. I'm done with her too, El.

[The Magic Pudding]

Hello all, I'm Pudden and I'm from heaven's marketing department and wow, have I got good news for all you queers. God has been sitting in an uncomfortable chair all afternoon for your sins, so wooooo yeh, now all your sins are forgiven, praise the lord, chop chop, get praising and you should probably hang a little chair from your necks, he'd like that.

[Napoléon]

LMAO Pudding wins.

[salty]

I'm sure it's not bad when a straight couple who simply can't have babies adopt. Why is the feeling different for gays?

I don't think its bad for homosexual couples to adopt. I think its great that children are given homes where people love and care for them. A lot of preparation goes into adoption. I'm saying that some people want children of their own bodies and biologically this cannot be so for same sex couples the child will belong to one or the other. Stating that doesn't mean children won't be loved or valued.

---

But you are judging those groups of people! The whole point of this was that you were explaining why they were wrong! So for me, a serial 'fornicator', you are telling me that what I do is wrong, ergo you are by proxy judging me. Why wouldn't a homosexual be offended when you're saying that homosexuals cannot fully enjoy raising a child because it has genetic input from someone else?

El Dinero,
Once again unless you admit yourself to be in a group how am I to know you are there? Also, wouldn't you say that judgement comes with intentional mockery or disgust or pity? Let's pretend it's just you and me speaking for a minute and now that I know you're a fornicator I will reiterate what I said in a sweeping statement, but I will say it the way that I would if we were in person at a pub. "El, thanks for trusting me enough to admit that you fornicate, I know you're not into the bible so can I just say this? You've been pretty nice to me, which makes me think you value some of my opinion. Just be careful because that kind of lifestyle has the potential to give you an STD or maybe even pregnancy, also sometimes when people date for a long time, or have an open relationship the decision for a committed relationship is put off or can cause issues with trust if a marriage does happen because of past partners and past behavior. Of course it doesn't always pan out like that, it didn't for me. I just want to see you healthy and happy, so watch out for yourself." If it were just you and me that's how I would say it because I want you to protect your body and most importantly your heart. I don't think that sweeping statement was judgmental, like in church when a preacher speaks of a thief, unless someone jumps to their feet "you're judging me!" the pastor doesn't know if there are any thieves in the audience, but it is confronting to hear it and that's what we call "conviction."

Know this. A real friend will confront you, I know, I've been confronted and made some of the best decisions because the people around me love me and they want to see me healthy, happy and successful. If they didn't love me they wouldn't approach me or tell me when I'm doing something that has the potential to harm me. Again, I was speaking about why these sexual acts are wrong without using biblical sources to back me up. I'm telling you from a logical point of view, and if you want to take it personal then I can't stop you, but when something is wrong don't we choose if we're going to continue doing that action? I never said it's wrong so stop. I said it's wrong. I'm not your parent, I won't be monitoring you, have I ever asked about your sex life?

---

So basically, homosexual relationships are wrong even though you admit they are every bit as loving and committed as heterosexual ones, marriage is better except in the cases where it isn't, pre-marital sex leads to trust issues except when it doesn't, and people who can't naturally conceive can't fully enjoy raising a child, except in the cases where they can.

I'm done with this. Your views are offensive, self-contradictory in nature and outdated.

Do you like for every person to agree with you? Is this the first time someone has shown an opposing view? I did not contradict myself, you just refused to accept my reasoning. I explain to you that the simple fact that bodies of the same gender cannot come together, therefore by nature this combination is wrong, but your emotions are leading you, so you cannot understand me. There are no absolutes when it comes to relationships. There is no contradiction when someone leaves room for error, for the circumstance where things work out and when they don't. Be done with me if you want, but know that I am entitled to share my opinion.

[Zen Badger]

Do you like for every person to agree with you? Is this the first time someone has shown an opposing view? I did not contradict myself, you just refused to accept my reasoning. I explain to you that the simple fact that bodies of the same gender cannot come together, therefore by nature this combination is wrong, but your emotions are leading you, so you cannot understand me. There are no absolutes when it comes to relationships. There is no contradiction when someone leaves room for error, for the circumstance where things work out and when they don't. Be done with me if you want, but know that I am entitled to share my opinion.

I'm not opposed to disagreement but you need to have valid reasons for it.

And in my view you don't. "Oh it's wrong because their bits don't fit together and it's not natural"

Well, so fucking what?!?!?

By that reasoning we should give up flying in aeroplanes because our bodies aren't "designed" for flight.

I believe your husband is causasian?

How would you feel if someone told you that mixed marriages are sinful because black and white shouldn't be interbreeding?

And there are PLENTY of good little christians who think exactly that.

But here there be atheists who are of the opinion that when two people love each other sufficently that they are prepared to commit to each other for the rest of their lives, their gender, color or religion don't matter a fuck.

It is not wrong.

And if you can't see that then you are just as prejudiced, bigoted and narrowminded as any member of the KKK.

[ElDinero]

Yes, quite. You mentioned all the black people and women who died so that you could have an opinion. I highly doubt they were fighting for people who wanted to exercise the same prejudices over other groups of people that they themselves were dying to escape.

I don't see why it matters whether or not we declare ourselves part of a 'group' or not. If you are going to make sweeping statements about groups of people, expect them to encompass members of the forum to whom you are making the statements, and expect those people to find your statements ignorant and/or offensive. Dressing it up in flowery language because you like me doesn't change the fact that what you're saying has no basis in fact and is simply a projection of what your preacher has told you. Ohhhhh gay sex is unnatural, can't make babies, blah blah blah. It has already been explained to you perfectly well why that is irrelevant. If you are aware that homosexuality is a private, personal matter and that the love shared by two homosexuals is equal to that shared by heterosexuals, AND you concede my point that it would not lead to extinction of the species, you've run out of legs to stand on. Your ridiculous 'that doesn't go there' schtick is absurd, because we have established that sex does not make the relationship, that some couples (of any leaning) do not have sex and the ones that do have sex don't always do it for the sake of procreation.

You've proven my last post absolutely correct with your hypothetical 'me and you in a pub' conversation. 'These things can happen, these things can go wrong, then again it didn't for me and you might be fine'. And if you'd just said that, there'd be less of a problem. But, and I can't emphasise this point enough, you are using the point to say why something is WRONG. You are trying to illustrate that pre-marital sex is something that should not be done because it is WRONG, based on the fact that it CAN cause these problems. You're completely biased, and refusing to acknowledge that the same problems can arise through marriage, planned pregnancies, heterosexual relationships and so on. If you are going to be consistent and argue that those things are also wrong, then be my guest. If you're not, retract the point, admit you don't know what you're talking about and admit that the cause of things like STDs is not the act of pre-marital sex itself, but rather an ignorance of safe sex practices. I have slept with over 30 women and have never once had an STD. I don't have trust issues, or confidence issues, or any other hangups you care to mention. Ergo, we can easily establish that there is no causal link between one and the other, which means you cannot use the statement to show that it is wrong. I don't think I can be any clearer, and I don't see at all how you can refute this. Retract the point, or argue that marriage is also wrong. Your choice.

[frankiej]

bodies of the same gender cannot come together

I'm pretty sure they can

[The Grand Nudger]

I got pics to prove it!

[frankiej]

So please, don't say to me that I'm the kind of person that would judge someone involved in fornication

The majority of your religion is based on doing that.