Another Gun Thread

[The Grand Nudger]

I have already said in this thread, that it does not matter to me if it is a long rifle or handgun. An uzi cannot be considered a long gun. A handgun with a high capacity clip has more bullets in it, just like a high capacity clip for a long gun. Nobody needs high capacity clips or rapid fire anything.

They call them sporting rifles for a reason.  Semi auto pistols have a lower average magazine cap than the standard for rifles (they fall below the range of what;s consider "high capacity").  Some of the most popular pistols have a mag cap less than that of my bolt guns, and less than a revolver (which hey presto, is the second most significant contributor to all gun crime and injury).  All other things being equal, I actually prefer the high cap modifications (in my case, since I have the money to afford something btter than tape, lol, "banana clips" affixed to the bottom of my rotary mags) to my bolt guns so that I don't risk losing my sight picture, and obviously I prefer a semi auto for fast moving game and just generally having a blast ringing the target like a bell.

The idea that pistols are "high capacity"...and the notions that no one "needs" high caps or that their only purpose is spraying people or are all demonstrably and trivially false.  Do they really figure into the requirements for your advocacy of gun control anyway?  If you don't need them, I'd suggest cutting them out...if the principle of need figures into your arguments, ofc.    

The totality of firearm deaths are due to the fact that the makers do not give a shit about where they end up and our vetting sucks  at time of sale. Mass shootings are extremely high in America as compared to our first world allies. But even given that, the majority of deaths are from suicides, second domestic violence, third accidental. Most injuries and deaths happen with the user or someone the user is familiar with.

The totality of firearm deaths have little to nothing to do with what the makers do and don't give a shit about.  FWIW, they're the ones coming out with next gen safety features like biometrics (and they've always been the ones putting safeties and locking bolts and pins on), and that only increases the value (and thus retail) of their product.  As would reduced availability.  This is another instance of a facially false and irrelevant claim expressing your biases rather than identifying the gun problem.  

Imagine it were true, that..somehow, the gun makers not giving a shit is why people commit so many suicides, or why boyfriends shoot their girlfriends, or why cops and robbers shoot at each other.  Well, okay, if that were true what could we do to solve the problem of making a manufacturer give a shit, and will that really reduce the number of suicides, domestic violence incidents, or school shootings?

And it is "gun safety" not "gun control". I hate that term "gun control", because the worshipers think it is a call on our part to a one party fascist state. 

[
It is what it is.  Gun saftey is not pointing the opposite end at a person.  Restrictive legislation is gun control.

And why should we have to argue shit? We've been held hostage by the industry and their profit lobbies. If the "sell more and do nothing" worked, we'd have little to no firearm violence. But we are top of the list. They should be explaining why they think their tactics work when it is clear they do not work.

40 years of firearm violence on daily basis is not my idea of a good plan. We need to do things differently and what we have now SUCKS!

You don't -have- to argue shit, unless you hope to effect legislation that passes the sniff test and might actually have a shot at reducing the problems we have that relate to guns.  You can say untrue things, about other things in your political wheelhouse, all day every day....but I don't think it's successful path to more effective gun control.

Maybe consider the atf, which has been chronically and intentionally underfunded and defanged.  Maybe suggest that mandatory minimums (like 10-20-life) ought to apply to cap violations if they apply to other gun crimes.  Maybe consider a free market friendly way to reduce the overall amount of accessible and preferred guns?  Maybe consider something, anything, that could work.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

"Drunks with guns defeat tyrant! Film tonight at never o'clock. "

[The Grand Nudger]

The tab for a certain bar in philly.....

54 bottles of Madeira, 60 bottles of claret, eight of whiskey, 22 of porter, eight of hard cider, 12 of beer and seven bowls of alcoholic punch.

Washington was a rum runner and profiteer who literally paid for his seat in booze.  He insisted that the continental army be kept in liquor (even if he spoke out of the other side of his mouth about drunkeness) and became a very successful whiskey distiller after the war.

Them boys was drunk, all the time. To some extent, fighting a quasi guerrilla war against a well equipped and well supplied tyrant just might require copious amounts of sedatives and liquid courage, lol.

(and I know, I know, the tyranny of the king is highly debatable..but that's the fundamental propaganda of that narrative, right?)

[onlinebiker]

GB - if you want a bolt rifle you can cycle without losing sight picture - get a Swiss Karabiner K- 31.

7.5 x 55 - almost identical to 308 NATO in performance - and a unique straight pull bolt action.

Bonus - all rifles are match grade.

[The Grand Nudger]

Bargain price, too, just checked them out, lol.  I like.  Floating barrel, workable trigger, aftermarket mag mods, effective range of 540y....lolololololol.

Looks like it's on my list now, after I get my anschutz.

[onlinebiker]

Bargain price, too, just checked them out, lol.  I like.  Floating barrel, workable trigger, aftermarket mag mods, effective range of 540y....lolololololol.

Looks like it's on my list now, after I get my anschutz.

I picked one up years ago. They are great rifles for 90 years old.

The original Swiss ammo (also all match grade) is getting hard to find - and it's expensive. However - it reloads fine with a.308 bullet (Swiss was .307) and new brass is available.

I'm currently experimenting with plastic sabots and 55 grain .223 bullets. 4700 fps at muzzle and reasonable groups at 100 yards. ( point of impact 18 inches higher than a 155 grain .308)

[The Grand Nudger]

Ammo availability is becoming an issue for my bolts already.

Speaking of, there's a potential route for restrictive legislation that can work. If you want to reduce the amount of rounds a person can send downrange, screwing with his mags won't do shit, whereas setting a possession limit on ammo outside of a range will. They are hazardous materials, after all. Perhaps they should require an endorsement or licensing beyond some threshold (and ofc there can be site-specific or chambering exemptions).

[onlinebiker]

Ammo availability is becoming an issue for my bolts already.

Speaking of, there's a potential route for restrictive legislation that can work.  If you want to reduce the amount of rounds a person can send downrange, screwing with his mags won't do shit, whereas setting a possession limit on ammo outside of a range will.  They are hazardous materials, after all.  Perhaps they should require an endorsement or licensing beyond some threskhold (and ofc there can be site-specific or chambering exemptions).

Yeah - I expect they will cook up a sin- tax for ammo.

At which point I will become a very wealthy man.



Wanna buy some?

[Amarok]

They were idiots and no they aren't 


There are better ways 



Then Jesus was a bigger hypocrite 





Argument ad hiterum and Hitler loosened gun laws and didn't take the guns till after he took over tus killing your whole point .



Neither do real ones but they sure as hell put a lot of them in power

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And most don't care

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That makes no sense 

No it wouldn't 


And yet they do

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Nope fetishize guns




Their not needed for any reason 


Gun nut

Disagree on all and Hitler took the guns from dissidents prior to having them murdered.

There is nothing to disagree on and you missed my point about hitler no big surprise

[Brian37]

I have already said in this thread, that it does not matter to me if it is a long rifle or handgun. An uzi cannot be considered a long gun. A handgun with a high capacity clip has more bullets in it, just like a high capacity clip for a long gun. Nobody needs high capacity clips or rapid fire anything.

They call them sporting rifles for a reason.  Semi auto pistols have a lower average magazine cap than the standard for rifles (they fall below the range of what;s consider "high capacity").  Some of the most popular pistols have a mag cap less than that of my bolt guns, and less than a revolver (which hey presto, is the second most significant contributor to all gun crime and injury).  All other things being equal, I actually prefer the high cap modifications (in my case, since I have the money to afford something btter than tape, lol, "banana clips" affixed to the bottom of my rotary mags) to my bolt guns so that I don't risk losing my sight picture, and obviously I prefer a semi auto for fast moving game and just generally having a blast ringing the target like a bell.

The idea that pistols are "high capacity"...and the notions that no one "needs" high caps or that their only purpose is spraying people or are all demonstrably and trivially false.  Do they really figure into the requirements for your advocacy of gun control anyway?  If you don't need them, I'd suggest cutting them out...if the principle of need figures into your arguments, ofc.    

The totality of firearm deaths are due to the fact that the makers do not give a shit about where they end up and our vetting sucks  at time of sale. Mass shootings are extremely high in America as compared to our first world allies. But even given that, the majority of deaths are from suicides, second domestic violence, third accidental. Most injuries and deaths happen with the user or someone the user is familiar with.

The totality of firearm deaths have little to nothing to do with what the makers do and don't give a shit about.  FWIW, they're the ones coming out with next gen safety features like biometrics (and they've always been the ones putting safeties and locking bolts and pins on), and that only increases the value (and thus retail) of their product.  As would reduced availability.  This is another instance of a facially false and irrelevant claim expressing your biases rather than identifying the gun problem.  

Imagine it were true, that..somehow, the gun makers not giving a shit is why people commit so many suicides, or why boyfriends shoot their girlfriends, or why cops and robbers shoot at each other.  Well, okay, if that were true what could we do to solve the problem of making a manufacturer give a shit, and will that really reduce the number of suicides, domestic violence incidents, or school shootings?

And it is "gun safety" not "gun control". I hate that term "gun control", because the worshipers think it is a call on our part to a one party fascist state. 

[
It is what it is.  Gun saftey is not pointing the opposite end at a person.  Restrictive legislation is gun control.

And why should we have to argue shit? We've been held hostage by the industry and their profit lobbies. If the "sell more and do nothing" worked, we'd have little to no firearm violence. But we are top of the list. They should be explaining why they think their tactics work when it is clear they do not work.

40 years of firearm violence on daily basis is not my idea of a good plan. We need to do things differently and what we have now SUCKS!

You don't -have- to argue shit, unless you hope to effect legislation that passes the sniff test and might actually have a shot at reducing the problems we have that relate to guns.  You can say untrue things, about other things in your political wheelhouse, all day every day....but I don't think it's successful path to more effective gun control.

Maybe consider the atf, which has been chronically and intentionally underfunded and defanged.  Maybe suggest that mandatory minimums (like 10-20-life) ought to apply to cap violations if they apply to other gun crimes.  Maybe consider a free market friendly way to reduce the overall amount of accessible and preferred guns?  Maybe consider something, anything, that could work.

Not the point...

The bottom line no matter the model of firearm, no matter handgun or long gun, we have too much firearm violence.

What will work, is for the companies that make them, to stop fucking marketing them like everyone can be a hero, snack patriot, rape victim survivor. Because that is not the majority of Roy Rogers, Dirty Harry outcomes where the good guy always wins.

Again. This bullshit about legal, vs illegal. And MOST injuries and deaths, REGARDLESS involve someone the user knows.

It still remains an issue of access. 

What COULD WORK, is to stop making them like candy and handing them out like candy. Just like the oil industry was forced to remove lead from gas, but cars were still sold. But even given that, we still need to get off of burning fossil fuels. I am sure if humans do not blow ourselves up over bullshit, I can even see firearms existing in the same context.

My point still remains, we cannot keep doing the same fucking bullshit we have been. Technology changes and so should laws to make us safer.