Open borders

[The Grand Nudger]

That’s how they get ya. You expect Cletus but you get a guy in a suit branding contemporary white supremacy specifically along the lines of (and as) a modern progressive movement.

They’re rational, skeptics, deeply concerned about climate change and the erosion of our rights. Populists who believe in universal healthcare and who reject hate, on both sides.

[Fireball]

Here's a solution to border security I'm sure Republicans can agree on:

Thoughts and Prayers.  They will protect the border.  After all, that's what we use to protect ourselves from mass shootings.

You know, that is an idea whose time has come! I'd love to see what the chump would do with it. He might even start tweeting it, the crazy old coot.

[EgoDeath]

You're as paranoid as you are hard-headed, gae. Not everyone is plotting to get you to join a white supremacy group through the guise of being a liberal. You do realize that most conservatives are not white supremacists... Right? Someone can be right without being alt-right. You don't seem to get that.

That being said.... Hilariously enough, people on the right call me a far left regressive more often than not.

It's almost as if people on the far end of each side of the spectrum miss the mark, consistently, in defining the people they disagree with. Imagine that.



I'm a progressive liberal. Always have been. Repeating over and over that you think I'm alt-right doesn't make it so. I think your personal experiences have clouded your judgement in assessing other people.

[no one]

Humanity's pretend laws regarding imaginary territories has always sickened me, as well as amusing the shit out of me

[Amarok]

You're as paranoid as you are hard-headed, gae. Not everyone is plotting to get you to join a white supremacy group through the guise of being a liberal.

No but a massive number are 

You do realize that most conservatives are not white supremacists... Right? Someone can be right without being alt-right. You don't seem to get that.

Some may not be but a culture of tolerance  and promotion of such attitudes has developed on the right 

That being said.... Hilariously enough, people on the right call me a far left regressive more often than not.

That's just more proof of how unhinged they are 

It's almost as if people on the far end of each side of the spectrum miss the mark, consistently, in defining the people they disagree with. Imagine that.

Nope one side does and it has fuck all to do with "disagreement "

I'm a progressive liberal.

Maybe a Liberal but that's hardly an achievement 

Always have been. Repeating over and over that you think I'm alt-right doesn't make it so.

Yeah and your denial doesn't make it so either 

I think your personal experiences have clouded your judgement in assessing other people.

Or clarified it

[The Grand Nudger]

You could just look it up, for fucks sake, lol.

I know you haven’t fallen down the hole yet just as well as I know that you’ve absorbed some of their propaganda.

More than anything, it’s happened as a consequence of their normalization. Whether people want to, or realize that they have, we’ve all been forced to wade through their shit.

Getting some on our shoes isn’t all that surprising. OFC, some people just spread their shit for the troll value, like the OP. This suits contemporary white supremacy just fine. Any way to get their messaging out, and anyone who carries it, serves their purpose equally.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

You're as paranoid as you are hard-headed, gae. Not everyone is plotting to get you to join a white supremacy group through the guise of being a liberal. You do realize that most conservatives are not white supremacists... Right? Someone can be right without being alt-right. You don't seem to get that.

That being said.... Hilariously enough, people on the right call me a far left regressive more often than not.

It's almost as if people on the far end of each side of the spectrum miss the mark, consistently, in defining the people they disagree with. Imagine that.



I'm a progressive liberal. Always have been. Repeating over and over that you think I'm alt-right doesn't make it so. I think your personal experiences have clouded your judgement in assessing other people.

For myself, I'm thinking of joining the Radical Moderate movement.

Boru

[The Grand Nudger]

Wouldn’t actually help, here, as a battle for how we define “moderate” between the left and right has smuggled in the same goods through think tanks like The American Enterprise institute, and how our media approaches this subject. The right is openly peddling but the left breathlessly (and uncritically) repeats it. Setting it up as just another alternative view in a sea of political opinions. In searching for that middle ground, the initial framing of the discussion does all the heavy lifting. Then there are the euphemisms, good god I love the euphemisms.

Good propaganda is good. The thing to remember in context of white supremacy in western culture (and particularly in American culture) is that legitimizing the POV starts with an inbuilt advantage.,...as we’ve all been conditioned to accept some precept or another upon which it’s founded. They don’t have to worry about recruiting, per se.....since we’ve all been groomed already ( regardless of our constant protestations and deep genuine belief to the contrary). I’m a leftist, or I’m a moderate has never, in this country....actually meant much towards establishing that we weren’t lugging around racist tropes.

There are leftist, moderate, and right wing factions in the movement, and before we get too hung on how crazy that sounds, on its face....remember that we’re not talking about a consistent or particularly lucid ideology to begin with.

---

Mitch Berbrier would be a good resource for general info about this. Mostly because of his accessible style and expansive lit reviews.

Also, because of his place in time, summarizing research on the movement that was already producing fruit as far back as 98. The description given might surprise people who only became aware of the rhetoric on or around 2016. They’re the borders of the alt right. How their branding efforts found success. Why so many millennials and gen z don’t recognize it for what it is. There has never been a time in their life that white supremacy hadn’t already reinvented itself. Also, why older millennials and earlier cohorts, working on old assumptions of white supremacy can and do fail to connect its contemporary rhetoric to the more familiar incarnation.

This is how and why we failed to contain it as we previously had (insomuch as we had). Why it sits at 1600 penn and we’re just now getting around to asking ourself “is racism racist” in respectable media outlets, come the back end of 2019.

https://www.researchgate.net/scientific-...h_Berbrier

[EgoDeath]

Nope. Progressive liberal my whole life. Not "maybe a liberal."

Ironically, you're trying to shoot for the moon to land among the stars, just like the people on the right do, in suggesting I'm "maybe a liberal." It's disingenuous but transparent and no matter how many times you try it, it won't be true.

[The Grand Nudger]

That’s nit a talisman to ward off white supremacist subversion, is what I keep stressing. You’re the target market for their rebranding. You think of white supremacy as a movement restricted to to the right, or far right- and in this your leftward bent indicates that you cannot be “one of them”....but that’s neither true, nor what they seek by the effort. More that they need to be seen making appeals common to both left and right factions, to be normal, and more than that....they need for others to see both the left and the right agreeing with them, even if it comes with the caveat “but I’m not one of them”.

They explicitly reformed their rhetoric in the mold of a modern progressive movement. They communicate themselves in a way that they know will appeal to you. Additionally, they position their detractors as something very much like you (mistakenly) imagine -them- to be.

All of this was accomplished 20 years ago or more, with the alt right picking up the mantle only recently and adding the mass comms ingredient it was missing.

All one needs to do is show public opinion polling about anti white bias, border policy, free speech, extremist groups, and demographic data to show the success of this effort.

One of the most subtle efforts in that mold was to characterize contemporary white supremacy as a universally reviled minority group. That’s actually not true. Contemporary white supremacist rhetoric is in the (white) majority in this country. It’s not at all limited to the right. This feeds into their narrative, however, from both ends.

- and you could research all of this for yourself, you don’t have to take my word for it. It’s not some honor argument between us, where you have to defend yourself by pretending I’m wrong about everything. Who do you think that helps, anyway?

Do you know why contemporary white supremacists are dissatisfied with trump, despite endorsing him? He’s not the right /kind- of racist. He doesn’t know how to make compelling appeals to you and other progressives. He re-ties the albatross to their necks. He wastes their effort, just as the alt right did with their public implosion after Charlottesville. Thing is, they’re still there, and they know they have a winning propaganda with mechanisms to appeal to people as seemingly far away on the political spectrum as yourself.

...but sure, sure, let’s defend our honor and pretend that the other guy is just making shit up. It’s nit as if he was raised to be an overt white supremacist. It couldn’t possibly be that he’s warning you from experience and has the receipts to show for what he’s telling you.

What could possibly go wrong, lol.