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RE: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
August 11, 2020 at 10:53 pm
(August 11, 2020 at 10:20 pm)Eleven Wrote: A theist being obtuse, that’s original. *eyeroll*
@Grandizer
It's not as though this hasn't been posted on the forum multiple times before over the years:
https://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-chri...ate-jesus/
Posting it multiple times doesn't make it right. This has been corrected time and time again, but apparently people don't like to be corrected, including atheists.
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RE: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
August 11, 2020 at 10:55 pm
Actually, it is more accurate to state that theists want to ignore the truth.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
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RE: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
August 11, 2020 at 10:58 pm
(August 11, 2020 at 10:55 pm)Eleven Wrote: Actually, it is more accurate to state that theists want to ignore the truth.
Why are you deflecting?
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RE: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
August 11, 2020 at 11:00 pm
Why are you asking irrelevant questions?
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
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RE: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
August 12, 2020 at 12:02 pm
(This post was last modified: August 12, 2020 at 12:04 pm by Greatest I am.)
Grandizer
You reject my research then ask for more.
Find another bitch.
Regards
DL
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RE: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
August 12, 2020 at 8:55 pm
(August 12, 2020 at 12:02 pm)Greatest I am Wrote: Grandizer
You reject my research then ask for more.
Find another bitch.
Regards
DL
Calling what you did "research" is questionable. But yes be yet another Acharyan type mythicist who refuses to provide evidence that the Jesus figure was a copy of prior myths. It's always the same thing over and over again.
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RE: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
August 12, 2020 at 9:27 pm
(This post was last modified: August 12, 2020 at 9:29 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I'm pretty sure he was responding to a comment about the claimed uniqueness of the christian god.
Regardless of whether christians copied other narratives or not, that's not the case. We can state, if we like, that many people over lots of time and geography came up with the type of salvific figure found in the NT all on their own - the NT being one example of it. We do that alot, with objects and ideas.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
August 12, 2020 at 11:39 pm
(This post was last modified: August 12, 2020 at 11:39 pm by GrandizerII.)
(August 12, 2020 at 9:27 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I'm pretty sure he was responding to a comment about the claimed uniqueness of the christian god.
Regardless of whether christians copied other narratives or not, that's not the case. We can state, if we like, that many people over lots of time and geography came up with the type of salvific figure found in the NT all on their own - the NT being one example of it. We do that alot, with objects and ideas.
By stating specifically that there were prior examples of figures who died for other people and then were resurrected. I just wonder where are these examples? Or rather what primary sources reveal those to be the case.
I agree nothing is truly unique about Christianity. Views evolve over time, yes, so one could argue that the resurrection of Jesus was derived from certain prior beliefs or whatever, but it doesn't mean they were based on some prior identical accounts of resurrections or that such prior accounts exist.
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RE: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
August 12, 2020 at 11:51 pm
(This post was last modified: August 12, 2020 at 11:52 pm by Belacqua.)
(August 12, 2020 at 11:39 pm)Grandizer Wrote: By stating specifically that there were prior examples of figures who died for other people and then were resurrected. I just wonder where are these examples? Or rather what primary sources reveal those to be the case.
I agree nothing is truly unique about Christianity. Views evolve over time, yes, so one could argue that the resurrection of Jesus was derived from certain prior beliefs or whatever, but it doesn't mean they were based on some prior identical accounts of resurrections or that such prior accounts exist.
I think where they overstate the case is when they say that previous stories have figures dying and coming back FOR US.
There are several stories of dying and coming back, either through one's own power or that of another. Hercules rescues Alcestis from Hades, Dionysus gets chopped up and reassembled, etc. So coming back from the dead is an old story.
Doing it as sacrifice for humanity is unique in Christianity, as far as I know.
And I agree that nothing is 100% original. It's all been recombinations of old ideas since before Greek mythology. (Harry Potter is intolerable for me, because I know all the sources. But for kiddies who are seeing the cliches for the first time, it feels new.)
Still, originality is possible in how we recombine things. The idea of serving others is old. The idea of resurrection is old. The combination in Christianity was probably new.
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RE: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
August 13, 2020 at 12:11 am
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2020 at 12:26 am by GrandizerII.)
(August 12, 2020 at 11:51 pm)Belacqua Wrote: (August 12, 2020 at 11:39 pm)Grandizer Wrote: By stating specifically that there were prior examples of figures who died for other people and then were resurrected. I just wonder where are these examples? Or rather what primary sources reveal those to be the case.
I agree nothing is truly unique about Christianity. Views evolve over time, yes, so one could argue that the resurrection of Jesus was derived from certain prior beliefs or whatever, but it doesn't mean they were based on some prior identical accounts of resurrections or that such prior accounts exist.
I think where they overstate the case is when they say that previous stories have figures dying and coming back FOR US.
Yes, this. I'm familiar with the stories of Hercules bringing back Alcestis from Hades, and also Orpheus and his love (well, temporarily at least), etc. If it's just about simply coming back from the dead, then that's easy to demonstrate with examples. But in the accounts I'm familiar, they didn't die "for us" or "for our sins", but for other reasons.
Basically, the issue here isn't just mere overstatement, but sometimes blatant additions of "facts" out of nowhere, such as what we see in the blog post Eleven linked me to.
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